The Roth Army Disaster Relief Thread

[Nickdfresh]

No I've seen first hand how they handled a flood. They are so wasteful and incompetent. I also know a former FEMA manager. People depend on the federal government too much. FEMA does have some good advice on putting together your own emergency supplies and strategy. There is no excuse to do that especially when you live in an area prone to disasters. People need to be more proactive instead of having this lazy attitude on what is the government going to give me? Everyone has their hand out and it needs to stop.

Which flood?

[Nickdfresh]

Buffalo is one of the grand canal cities. You can tell there was a lot of money there at one time. I think getting the Canadian shoppers helps your economy more than other lake towns but a medical campus and call centers just isn't going to make up for the lost transportation and manufacturing industry. You still need a manufacturing base and the reason the cities on the great lakes did so well is water is the cheapest way to move cargo. I never bought the concept services were going to replace consumer goods and they sold that hard in business school. We don't even do services good anymore. It still boils down to the quality of people you have in your area. You have places in the world that thrive with very few resources because the people are high quality and then you have some of the richest land in the world and nobody has done anything with it. It's why Asia is going to eat the western countries lunch. They get up in the morning and take life as it comes and they go to work. Here everyone is blaming this and that for their problems and want the government to provide everything and nothing gets done. That attitude just empowers the crooked people in power more. They shit a brick when the population says we don't want anything from you and we don't need you. Want to change things, don't take the bribes.

There still is some manufacturing here with the Ford plant not far from where I live and a major contractor to GM, and a relatively skilled and hardworking workforce that will almost kill to get a decent wage job. But there are places that get by without all that much manufacturing but I'm not sure what the best solution is here other than the lakefront and waterfront are very scenic during the summers, and have become minor tourist destinations. The problem is that you have an old, mostly derelict steel mill on tons of contaminated soil covering some of the choicest waterfront area and is probably unfeasible to clean up now, but would make a great "infrastructure" project. A group wants to now relocate the Buffalo Bills' stadium along the lakefront along with a huge campus of shopping centers, restaurants, etc. That'd be great, but it will cost well over a billion dollars. If the new owners of the Bills decide to leave town when the 90+ year old owner dies, that could also be a big fucking problem! On the bright side, in addition to having medical campuses and call centers, Buffalo is becoming a college town with the University of Buffalo (UB) becoming a large international destination and noted medical school...

[Nickdfresh]

What could be a major problem here and other places in PA and NY is that we're getting a couple of inches of rain or more even before this things hits due to a system out of the Midwest. We may have nearly double the rainfall this coming week than we had during the entire drought-ridden summer...

[Nitro Express]

There still is some manufacturing here with the Ford plant not far from where I live and a major contractor to GM, and a relatively skilled and hardworking workforce that will almost kill to get a decent wage job. But there are places that get by without all that much manufacturing but I'm not sure what the best solution is here other than the lakefront and waterfront are very scenic during the summers, and have become minor tourist destinations. The problem is that you have an old, mostly derelict steel mill on tons of contaminated soil covering some of the choicest waterfront area and is probably unfeasible to clean up now, but would make a great "infrastructure" project. A group wants to now relocate the Buffalo Bills' stadium along the lakefront along with a huge campus of shopping centers, restaurants, etc. That'd be great, but it will cost well over a billion dollars. If the new owners of the Bills decide to leave town when the 90+ year old owner dies, that could also be a big fucking problem! On the bright side, in addition to having medical campuses and call centers, Buffalo is becoming a college town with the University of Buffalo (UB) becoming a large international destination and noted medical school...

I have a friend in Seattle who works for a company that specializes in cleaning up industrial waste sites. They do it all around the world. I did some work with Lockheed/Martin on a big nuclear waste site clean up project. The problem with a lot of this, is these companies just milk the government for money and don't really get anything done. They were going to encase a pit where a blown nuclear reactor was buried and then dig the waste up with robots and encase it in glass. Then they were scared of making the situation worse. I was a paper shuffler getting my check. I took another job and from what I saw Lockheed/Martin was building a bridge to nowhere.

I've seen too much of that over the years. I think we could clean a lot of stuff up, but the will is not there. People just want a paycheck and who cares if the objective is ever accomplished. The government seems to be the big sucker customer everyone is gouging. It's in everything and people think they can continue doing it on a mass scale. It's very frustrating.

We have a chronic lack of leadership across the board. The system rewards whether you fail or not. In the government. In business. Everyone wants a bailout and nobody gives a ratt's ass if they accomplish anything or not.

[Nickdfresh]

I have a friend in Seattle who works for a company that specializes in cleaning up industrial waste sites. They do it all around the world.

Interesting. Because I've also worked for a company whose environmental division was a primary response contractor for the U.S. Army Corp of Engineers. I was no engineer or project manager mind you, but I did get a fair amount of experience and was trained to work and supervise in contaminated environments. Also, we have Sevenson here out of Niagara Falls. They were just an ordinary construction and "dirt work" company until a little problem in the 1970s in a Niagara Falls neighborhood called Love Canal caused them to essentially write the book on contaminated site remediation...

I did some work with Lockheed/Martin on a big nuclear waste site clean up project.

Really? You worked for LM directly, or was it a contractor? My brother was a project manager for General Electric for a short time...

The problem with a lot of this, is these companies just milk the government for money and don't really get anything done.

Um, my experience is that there is indeed a fair amount of "milking" that goes on, one company I worked for, owned by knuckleheads, more or less chased thin veins of contaminated soil deep under the original projected excavation site that arguably should just have been reburied under clean fill since they posed no threat hundreds of feet down, for instance. But the gov't and engineers thought different, but at the end of the day it really didn't make much difference either way. But to say "they don't get anything done" is one of the biggest pieces of bullshit you've posed as prior experience, in your impressively varied life experiences of dozens of jobs, here ever. In fact, if they get nothing done, big fines are paid, lawsuits will be rolled out, they can be prosecuted for fraud, and heads will roll and careers will be ruined in the various gov't agencies overseeing them. That is fact! I've been on many sites where much was done. I don't get the impression you have or have much of a fucking clue of which you are talking about...

They were going to encase a pit where a blown nuclear reactor was buried and then dig the waste up with robots and encase it in glass. Then they were scared of making the situation worse. I was a paper shuffler getting my check. I took another job and from what I saw Lockheed/Martin was building a bridge to nowhere.

Cool story, broh. But I am unfamiliar with the position of "paper shuffler". I'm not sure why they would need remote controlled excavation equipment as human operators in the appropriate PPE supported by diligent monitoring and extensive decontamination should be fine and would be cheaper and quicker, though I could be wrong. My brother was also a project manager for the same afore mentioned company of knuckleheads I worked for, he was on a project in New England where one of the many subcontractors in the Manhattan Project thought it would be a fine idea to simply throwaway weapons grade nuclear waste into public landfills. Sixty years later, it didn't seem like such a great idea, and they dug up said landfill. But it was hardly a "nothing" job and probably prevented lawsuits and secured nuke biohazard material with lots of bad uses...

I'm also unclear as to what a major weapons and defense contractor/manufacturer would be doing running what is essentially an elaborate construction project entailing a good deal of experience and expertise. But what would you have them to do? Dig up the reactor and throw it in a playground? Of course they're going to be cautious. I dunno the scale or scope of the operation, but probably it isn't a great idea to leave leaky nukes in the ground regardless as leeching and other things can become serious issues. In the 40's-60's, they didn't often think of things that way as it was 'out-of-site, out-of-mind.'

I've seen too much of that over the years.

Was that while you were truckdriving?

I think we could clean a lot of stuff up, but the will is not there.

There is will, and then there is the money to pay for it. You have to have an awful lot of will to get monies for infrastructure in the U.S. However can we build several hundred million dollar fighters we probably don't need if we pay people and small business to clean up the environment?

People just want a paycheck and who cares if the objective is ever accomplished. The government seems to be the big sucker customer everyone is gouging. It's in everything and people think they can continue doing it on a mass scale. It's very frustrating.

Oh look, more bullshit truisms! Um, actually the people I knew loved their paychecks certainly, but they also had massive egos and reputations to protect, uphold and very much "cared" about their projects and jobs. And you've obviously never worked under the USACE personnel. They are very aware of how much and what everything costs, often to the point of absurdity. I believe they often end up with at least some of the equipment at the end of the project...

We have a chronic lack of leadership across the board. The system rewards whether you fail or not. In the government. In business. Everyone wants a bailout and nobody gives a ratt's ass if they accomplish anything or not.

You're clueless and really need to stop bullshitting people on things you know fuckall about...

[Fairwrning]

Hang in there folks...its gonna be nasty.

[Fairwrning]

300 miles wide...sustained 75 mph winds...just getting started

[FORD]

It's why I'm glad I have all evergreen trees in my yard. I tried to get some aspen trees growing but the moose eat them.

Evergreen trees ain't the sturdiest in the nasty storms either. The old growth trees? Sure. But the younger ones - while they hold up under the snow and ice storms that would snap the aspens in two - they aren't a lot better in the strong winds. And if they happen to be on a hillside that's eroding because of flooding, they're pretty much fucked.

Not to mention (depending on where you are) the clearcutting of old growth forest has made many areas more susceptible to flooding, because the roots of those big trees used to suck up a lot of that water, and now it's got nowhere to go.

[Sensible Shoes]

Schools here closed on Mon & Tues already and a state of emergency declared. Can we say "overreact"?

[twonabomber]

I put the garbage can in the garage. Storm prep done.

[Nickdfresh]

I got water, beer and...okay I'm all set for the storm...

[twonabomber]

I got water, beer and...

That too!

I need to get some of those water purifier tabs. The lake is a block away, why store 20 gallons in the house when I've got eleventybillion gallons down the hill? :D

[FORD]

That too!

I need to get some of those water purifier tabs. The lake is a block away, why store 20 gallons in the house when I've got eleventybillion gallons down the hill? :D

Here's some made by "Rothco". Supposedly this is what the military uses in the field. Wonder if it's somebody related to DLR?

http://www.campingsurvival.com/milwatpurtab.html

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Merged the two Sandy threads....

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Getting a little hairy now here.... The brunt's going to go north of us, but we'll still get some nasty stuff probably until Monday night or so....

About 5,000 without power in the area so far....