The Gun Control Thread

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  • ELVIS
    Banned
    • Dec 2003
    • 44120

    Nonsense...

    Comment

    • Nickdfresh
      SUPER MODERATOR

      • Oct 2004
      • 49563

      Murderous 'monster' acquires an arsenal

      03monster.jpgArticle by: PAUL MCENROE and GLENN HOWATT , Star Tribune staff writers
      Updated: January 21, 2013 - 12:06 PM

      The Oberender case exposes loopholes in national gun laws and Minnesota's background checks.


      They knew the house far too well. It was where Christian Philip Oberender, then 14 years old, had murdered his mother in a shotgun ambush in the family rec room in 1995.

      Now, 18 years later, Carver County Sheriff Jim Olson was sending his deputies back to the home where Oberender still lives. Just two days earlier, Olson had scanned the day's shift reports and froze when he tripped over Oberender's name. A scan of a Facebook page then showed firearms spread out like a child's trophies on a bed inside the home, along with notes about the Newtown, Conn., gunman who shot 20 children to death.

      What Olson's deputies found in the home in Watertown Township was chilling: 13 guns, including semi-automatic rifles, an AK-47, a Tommy gun, assorted shotguns and handguns, including a .50-caliber Desert Eagle.

      Even more disturbing was the letter Oberender had written recently to his late mother, Mary: "I am so homicide,'' it said in broken sentences. "I think about killing all the time. The monster want out. He only been out one time and someone die.''

      Today, Oberender sits in a Carver County jail cell on a charge of being a felon in possession of firearms. And Olson, who investigated the 1995 murder as a young detective, finds his investigators at the center of a case that exposes the dangerous loopholes in the nation's gun laws and Minnesota's system of criminal background checks.

      Even though Oberender killed his mother with a firearm, even though he was committed to the state hospital in St. Peter as mentally ill and dangerous more than a decade ago, he was able to obtain a permit to purchase firearms last May. That piece of paper gave Oberender, now 32, the ability to walk into any licensed Minnesota retailer and buy any assault weapon or pistol on the rack.

      Dozens of other Minnesotans judged by a court to be mentally ill have also found that designation no barrier to obtaining deadly weapons.

      A Star Tribune review of state court records found case after case in which individuals deemed mentally ill in judicial proceedings later wound up in possession of guns and accused of violent crimes.

      At least 84 people have been charged since 2000 with illegal gun possession or assault with a dangerous weapon even though they had previously been committed by a judge as mentally ill. Of that group, 29 were charged with multiple counts of weapons possession and nine were considered by a judge to be mentally ill and dangerous.

      Additionally, the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension (BCA) has more than 168,000 "suspense files'' -- records on Minnesotans who have been arrested since 1990 but whose files are so incomplete that the state can't determine if they should have the right to buy guns.

      "The system failed in this case,'' Olson said in an interview. "We are having discussions with the BCA to make sure there aren't similar things like this hanging out there.''

      Federal agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms are working with Olson's investigators to sort out which guns Oberender might have bought from retailers using a permit he should never have possessed.

      No red flags

      How did Christian Oberender succeed in obtaining a gun permit?

      The answer lies in a combination of deceit on his part, failures in the state court system, and haphazard data collection by state agencies, according to interviews with law enforcement officials.

      In Minnesota, a person seeking a permit to purchase an assault weapon or pistol must submit an application to the local police or sheriff's department. There, the background check process begins with a query of the BCA's system. If no disqualifications show up -- such as a violent criminal record or mental illness commitment -- the permit is granted.

      No state permit is required to purchase a long rifle or a shotgun in Minnesota. Buyers going to a licensed retailer must pass a federal background check at the counter -- but those records can also be incomplete because they are supplied to the FBI by state agencies.

      Minnesota's gun laws don't require an applicant to provide a fingerprint or a Social Security number to verify identity.

      "This was one of our concerns during the 'Conceal and Carry' debate in Legislature 10 years ago and it was beaten down like everything else," said Heather Martens, executive director of Protect Minnesota, a gun violence prevention organization.

      Martens said Oberender's case highlights the reluctance of lawmakers to tighten gun laws because they fear being accused of infringing on individual rights. "Public schoolteachers have to go through a complete background check, even including a fingerprint,'' Martens said. "For buyers of assault weapons and pistols, law enforcement currently has only seven days to verify the person's identity and criminal history -- otherwise, a permit is automatically granted. We should at least allow police enough time to verify the person's identity.''

      At the BCA, a spokesperson said the agency's database will catch closely matched names and aliases, but it would not snag a name like the one on Oberender's application.

      In Oberender's case, the first glitch was that he simply transposed his first name and middle name on the gun permit application, apparently in an attempt to avoid recognition by the BCA's database.

      Additionally, when Oberender applied for his permit, records show, he lied about his mental health history, a move that triggered no red flag in the computers -- the BCA's system doesn't contain any state commitment records of the mentally ill and dangerous.

      "When we checked the record, there were no disqualifiers for a 'Philip Christian Oberender,'" said Carver Deputy Jason Kamerud.

      Last week, investigators also learned that Oberender's juvenile record -- where the murder of his mother is recorded -- had not been attached to his criminal history at the BCA. Carver investigators are still puzzled over that.

      In a statement, BCA spokesperson Jill Oliveira said, "There were no data submitted to the BCA about this individual; without it there can be no record."

      Loopholes

      The state's criminal background system appears to contain another loophole for violent felons and persons found mentally ill and dangerous who want to escape scrutiny. Under state law, a person's juvenile record is deleted from the BCA's database when the individual turns 28 unless a judge says otherwise, Oliveira said. As a result, a person with a violent juvenile record -- like Oberender -- might still qualify to buy a gun if there were no felonies on his adult record.

      State law requires the Minnesota Department of Human Services (DHS) to provide local law enforcement agencies with records of people who have been committed to institutional care for mental illness, if the applicant gives consent. But in general, the BCA said, a court order for civil commitment is classified as private data and is not available to the BCA.

      "There is no way that BCA can have DHS's commitment data,'' Oliveira said in a statement. In addition, about half of those committed by a court are directed to community providers, not state facilities, thus leaving it to the courts, not DHS, to ensure that the records are sent.

      It's unclear whether Oberender's mental health history was ever entered into any background check database.

      In late 2011, DHS tried to streamline the process, opening an electronic portal for background checks used by law enforcement officials. Last year an estimated 32,000 checks were conducted, and about 500 people were flagged as potential risks. When that happens, the agency provides law enforcement officials with a deeper check on people who could be disqualified.

      DHS also checks the state Supreme Court information system, currently the most accurate record of commitments, the agency said in a statement. "However," it added, "without additional identifying information, it may be difficult to determine whether someone with a common name matches an entry in the system."

      'Want to hurt people'

      Oberender received three years of intensive treatment for his mental illness as a juvenile, but in late 1998 was ordered committed as "mentally ill and dangerous" to the St. Peter state hospital. Mental health professionals wrote in court findings that they believed there was "a substantial likelihood that Oberender will engage in acts capable of inflicting serious physical harm to another." There are apparently no public records of when he was released from St. Peter. In a 2003 interview with the Star Tribune, Oberender said he spent a year in a halfway house after his release and believed he was turning his life around thanks to "all kinds of treatment."

      The felony charge he now faces could put him in prison for up to five years, or it could lead a judge to send him back to St. Peter for psychiatric care.

      Before his arrest, Oberender had been working as a skilled mechanic at a local sanitation hauling company.

      David Peterson, a co-worker and friend, said he believes his friend must have been living two lives.

      The two often spent time shooting guns behind Oberender's home, at targets ranging from old television sets to junk cars and pop cans, all the while critiquing each weapon, he said. He said that Oberender told him that he bought most of his guns at two licensed retail stores in the area and that the weapons were all registered.

      Oberender, he said, rarely mentioned his past, sharing only brief snippets about the murder.

      Still, Peterson said he felt so comfortable with Oberender that he invited him to his home for social occasions and was planning on setting him up with a date. "He is an excellent, great friend," Peterson said.

      Then there was the other life, the one where a self-described "monster" lived inside the quiet young man.

      "I think about killing all the time,'' Oberender wrote. "Why god do I feel like this? The monster want to hurt people. Guns are too fast. The monster want it to be slow and painful. There is so much pain in my heart and soul. Me want other to feel it."

      Sheriff Olson read the letter after his investigators inventoried their evidence.

      "It was chilling," he said.

      Comment

      • FORD
        ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

        • Jan 2004
        • 59552

        Three most fucked up things about that story....

        1) Violent crimes should ALWAYS prohibit you from owning guns. Juvenile or not. I don't give a shit if you crawled into Babies R Us when you're 6 months old. If you killed someone in the process, you never get to own a goddamned gun. No exceptions.

        2) The mental health gap. Same story as with that lunatic Korean bastard at Virginia Tech. Same as with Lanza and his Freeper cult wackjob mother

        3) NOBODY needs to own a goddamned Desert Eagle. End of story.
        Eat Us And Smile

        Cenk For America 2024!!

        Justice Democrats


        "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

        Comment

        • BigBadBrian
          TOASTMASTER GENERAL
          • Jan 2004
          • 10625

          Originally posted by FORD

          3) NOBODY needs to own a goddamned Desert Eagle. End of story.
          Do you even know what Desert Eagle is?
          “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

          Comment

          • Nickdfresh
            SUPER MODERATOR

            • Oct 2004
            • 49563

            Originally posted by BigBadBrian
            Do you even know what Desert Eagle is?
            What? Do you have a corner on encyclopedic gun knowledge, Ian V. Hogg?

            Comment

            • ELVIS
              Banned
              • Dec 2003
              • 44120

              A scary gun ??

              Comment

              • Headly1984
                Head Fluffer
                • Jul 2011
                • 364

                IF ya ever fire a Desert Eagle you will most likely enjoy it

                The recoil is very low for a large caliber, they are not easy to fire quick and accurate however cause they will 'jump' & you will get hot powder in your face - it is an amazing pistol & quite a sight to see being shot - fire extends ~1-2' after ea. shot

                The person I know with one has it as a novelty item & uses it rarely at the range

                I was given permission to use it after watching 4 other guys shoot a magazine full of rds. ea. - none of em were very accurate when shooting it at a target 50' away from us, so when it was my turn I picked it up, sighted it at the target and squeezed a rapid succession of rounds to empty it as quick as I could 1 handed, everyone was laughing hysterically at the sight of the thing just banging the shots out and the almost constant flame from the thing - quite the sight to see - amazing really

                very wide pistol too - sets on top of the hand like a mushroom unlike any other pistol I have handled b4

                guns don;t kill people, criminals do .. everyone should be afforded the opportunity to own any thing they want until proven they are not capable to be responsible

                Comment

                • FORD
                  ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                  • Jan 2004
                  • 59552

                  Originally posted by BigBadBrian
                  Do you even know what Desert Eagle is?
                  If I didn't, why would I say nobody needs to own one?

                  It's a fucking 50 caliber handgun, which in and of itself is a ridiculous idea. And unless a herd of stampeding elephants is charging your house (which is unlikely unless you live in Africa) why the fuck would you ever need one?

                  And it's definitely not a gun for chicks either.....

                  Eat Us And Smile

                  Cenk For America 2024!!

                  Justice Democrats


                  "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                  Comment

                  • Seshmeister
                    ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

                    • Oct 2003
                    • 35749

                    Originally posted by Headly1984
                    guns don;t kill people, criminals do .. everyone should be afforded the opportunity to own any thing they want until proven they are not capable to be responsible
                    As therefore suicide bomber vests don't kill people, criminals do...everyone should be afforded the opportunity to own any thing they want until proven they are not capable to be responsible?

                    Comment

                    • Nitro Express
                      DIAMOND STATUS
                      • Aug 2004
                      • 32942

                      I wish I was in the ammunition business. Between the government and the paranoid citizens buying billions of rounds I would be making a shit load of money.
                      No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                      Comment

                      • lesfunk
                        Full Member Status

                        • Jan 2004
                        • 3583

                        I'm gonna pick up at least a thousand rounds this week.
                        http://gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=4448212&t=o GIFSoup

                        Comment

                        • lesfunk
                          Full Member Status

                          • Jan 2004
                          • 3583

                          I also want one of these If I can ever find one

                          http://gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=4448212&t=o GIFSoup

                          Comment

                          • Nitro Express
                            DIAMOND STATUS
                            • Aug 2004
                            • 32942

                            Gun control means not cumming too soon.
                            No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                            Comment

                            • Nitro Express
                              DIAMOND STATUS
                              • Aug 2004
                              • 32942

                              Originally posted by lesfunk
                              I also want one of these If I can ever find one

                              http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/shotguns/ksg/
                              Why? It looks like it shoots Nerf darts.
                              No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                              Comment

                              • Nitro Express
                                DIAMOND STATUS
                                • Aug 2004
                                • 32942

                                Originally posted by lesfunk
                                I'm gonna pick up at least a thousand rounds this week.
                                Ok. I'm still waiting for my big tanker truck of bear spray to be delivered.

                                No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                                Comment

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