Tar Sands Pipeline = Game over for the whole fucking planet

[Satan]

There are no marketable sources of renewable energy...

Dragonshit.

Like I said, biodiesel was marketable a century ago. Hemp can be grown damn near anywhere, and can be grown continuously on the same land. Once you drill a clean pool of oil, (or destroy a piece of land to extract it from the shale) it's gone forever.

Which is the more logical course of action?

[ZahZoo]

Wasn't aware it's a mass e-mail thing... but also the government web links support this. Plus current industry updates in sourcing frac'ing oil/gas sources are growing exponentially.

Two of my kids and several close friends work in the oil & gas industry... mostly associated with the Fayetteville Shale gas play here in Arkansas. So I can speak almost first hand to this activity n our community.

After 5+ years of active frac'ing in our area I can tell you it's not the evil doom and gloom deal opponents are making it out to be. The biggest negative impacts have only been rapid wear and tear on local roadways that weren't designed for heavy 18 wheeler truck traffic. There's been no fouling of well water nor sub-surface sources. The frac'ing occurs thousands of feet below available surface water pools.

Probably a slight uptick in air pollution due to increased trucking activity... but this is heavily forested area so it's mostly feeding the trees here with carbon.

Upside... natural gas prices have fallen significantly as supply has exploded. Y'all might have noticed that on your heating bills. The huge influx of money both from the industry invading but also from royalties and infrastructure upgrades to support all this activity has produced tons of jobs and tax revenue. The poor economy isn't dragging this area down.

I think we need to develop and exploit all the energy sources we can... plus drive clean energy deployment as well. If we can break dependance on foreign oil and become a source to other parts of the world... great. Bring it on!!

[Satan]

Because with proper ENFORCED regulation and oversight, and no politicians taking bribes or backroom deals, a pipeline can be built and operated safely with a very low % of spillage.

Tell that to the people of Arkansas

But that isn't how we operate. We take the union labor rather than the best labor.

Union labor IS the best labor. The reason there is so much cheap disposable bullshit out there today is because it's all mass produced Chinese crap made in sweatshops by people making 20 cents an hour.

We cut corners to save money. Politicians & regulators look the other way for a sammich bag of cash. Ridiculous. If we could be honest, transparent, and above board we could do this well and all benefit from it with increased jobs and lowed oil prices.

So then let's repeal Shittizens United, bring back the Fairness Act, the Sherman antitrust act and repeal everything else done to destroy democracy since 1980. I'm all for that.

But even if we did all of the above, it does not change the fact that petroleum burning engines are 19th century technology, and that the supply of USABLE oil is just about gone. Rather than fucking up the environment of the whole North American continent with a toxic process attempting to turn tar or shale into oil, why not simply STOP using this crap altogether and move on with something better?

[ELVIS]

Wasn't aware it's a mass e-mail thing... but also the government web links support this. Plus current industry updates in sourcing frac'ing oil/gas sources are growing exponentially.

Two of my kids and several close friends work in the oil & gas industry... mostly associated with the Fayetteville Shale gas play here in Arkansas. So I can speak almost first hand to this activity n our community.

After 5+ years of active frac'ing in our area I can tell you it's not the evil doom and gloom deal opponents are making it out to be. The biggest negative impacts have only been rapid wear and tear on local roadways that weren't designed for heavy 18 wheeler truck traffic. There's been no fouling of well water nor sub-surface sources. The frac'ing occurs thousands of feet below available surface water pools.

Probably a slight uptick in air pollution due to increased trucking activity... but this is heavily forested area so it's mostly feeding the trees here with carbon.

Upside... natural gas prices have fallen significantly as supply has exploded. Y'all might have noticed that on your heating bills. The huge influx of money both from the industry invading but also from royalties and infrastructure upgrades to support all this activity has produced tons of jobs and tax revenue. The poor economy isn't dragging this area down.

I think we need to develop and exploit all the energy sources we can... plus drive clean energy deployment as well. If we can break dependance on foreign oil and become a source to other parts of the world... great. Bring it on!!

That's exactly this area, even more so I'm sure...

The worst part is the damage to the road surface...

[FORD]

Keystone XL Pipeline: Not in Our National Interest

[FORD]

Consumer Watchdog Report Shows Keystone XL Raises American Gas Prices
7/16/2013
Midwest Pump Prices Hardest Hit By Pipeline Development

Contact Info
Name: Jamie Court & Judy Dugan
Phone Number: Jamie, 310 392-0522 ext. 327, or (cell) (310) 874-9989; or Judy (cell) 213 280-0175

SANTA MONICA, CA –The Keystone XL pipeline will raise gasoline prices in the United States, hiking prices at the pump 20 to 40 cents per gallon in the Midwest, with no long-term economic benefit to the U.S. economy, says a new report by Consumer Watchdog.

The report finds that:

Drivers, especially in the Midwest, would pay 20 cents to 40 cents more at the pump if the disputed pipeline were built, as the current discount of up to $30 a barrel for Canadian oil disappears.
The true goal of multinational oil companies and Canadian politicians backing the pipeline is to reach export outlets outside the U.S. for tar sands oil and refined fuels, which would drive up the oil’s price.
With U.S. oil production rising fast, any “energy security” benefit for the U.S. would vanish as American oil output exceeds that of Saudi Arabia in about 2020, according to the International Energy Agency.

The report, produced by Research Director Emeritus Judy Dugan and independent energy analyst Tim Hamilton, utilized industry data, public records and company documents. Access the report, charts and graphics here: http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/site...tonexl_cwd.pdf

“Keystone XL is not an economic benefit to Americans who will see higher gas prices and bear all the risks of the pipeline,” said report author Judy Dugan. “The pipeline is being built through America, but not for Americans.”

“A vote for Keystone is a vote to raise gas prices on Americans and send the profits to a foreign oil company,” said clean-energy investor Thomas Steyer, one of America’s most successful businessmen. Steyer, who won two campaigns for clean energy in California, has signed the "Giving Pledge" and is devoting the majority of his financial resources to clean energy research and causes. "The Consumer Watchdog reports makes clear that the Keystone XL Pipeline will lead to higher prices for American drivers at the pump and increased profits for foreign oil interests at a time when our U.S. economy is still in recovery.”

The report also found that Canadian crude oil currently being sent to the Midwest from Canada would be easily diverted to Keystone XL to satisfy overseas demand.

Much of the Canadian oil would go directly to Gulf Coast refineries owned by the same multinational companies investing in tar sands, said the report. These companies include Exxon Mobil, Chevron, Koch Industries, Marathon Oil and Shell Oil, said the report. Gulf refineries would refine the tar sands crude oil into diesel oil, which is in high overseas demand, and gasoline for export.

Price hikes at the pump are likely to hit as far as California. Canada is the second-largest exporter of crude to the West Coast region, just behind Ecuador. California refiners are taking action to import and use more Canadian oil.

Political leaders in the Canadian province of British Columbia have officially opposed plans for a major new tar sands oil pipeline from Alberta through their province to the Pacific Coast. Two other similar proposals may meet the same fate, and are certainly years in the future. This Canadian opposition increases the motivation of tar sands investors and developers and to get Keystone XL built as sure access to overseas markets.

“Any reduction of deliveries to Midwest refineries would crimp gasoline supply, further driving up pump prices, and Keystone XL’s backers want to move cheap oil out of the Midwest,” said report author Judy Dugan. “Many major Midwest refineries have also made expensive changes to maximize their use of the tar sands oil and could not operate as efficiently using different grades of oil from other sources.”

While the pipeline developers have insisted that the pipeline would create tens of thousands of jobs, they have offered no proof of substantial jobs created beyond construction and maintenance of the pipeline itself.

The conclusion of the report is: “U.S. consumers should be wary of the Keystone XL pipeline--not just for substantial environmental and safety reasons, but because it threatens their wallets. Given the fleeting benefits of construction jobs, the unprovability of long-term benefits and the negative effect of higher gasoline costs on consumers, Keystone XL is no economic boon to the United States. U.S. consumers and the overall economy would bear the substantial risks of the pipeline without measurable permanent benefit.”

[WACF]

That is just fucked.

More propaganda from the Rockefeller foundation.

[FORD]

[FORD]

Fuck Ed Schultz in his false-Democrat sellout ass

This guy started out as a Repuke Limpdick wannabe.... seemed to make a genuine move to Democratic populism in recent years, but now he is completely 100% shilling for this toxic death Keystone XL pipeline which will triple the KKKoch Brothers ridiculous ill-gotten wealth (they profit from both ends of the goddamned thing), destroy the entire midwest of the US, and not provide ONE SINGLE FUCKING DROP OF OIL OR GASOLINE FOR AMERICA, because it's all going to India and China. It would be easier for the pipeline to go across Canada, but the Canadian people know better. They can't get away with this shit up there (But the longer they keep Little Stevie around, the more likely it will become)

Fuck this hideous project. Fuck anyone who supports it, and especially fuck anybody who claims to be a Democrat while doing so. I'll never listen to your goddamned radio show again, you fucking coward. And I guess that leaves Rachel Maddow as the only Democrat left on the supposedly "liberal" MSNBC........

[Kristy]

Schultz was always a Koch sucker who unlike most of the people around here has recently come out of the closet. So why is this a surprise to you? I remember when I first heard this F A T wheezing bag of shit how he loved to waddle his F A T ass on liberal issues with a conservative slant. He's a fence-sitting moderate, a liar, and has one annoying voice. How this asshole thrives amazes me.

[FORD]

Defend this, Ed.... you piece of shit.

[FORD]

Beavis Schultz wants to see FIRE! FIRE! FIRE! from a corrosive toxic pipeline

[Dr. Love]

I thought Schultz was on primetime msnbc a year or two back shouting from the rooftops about how terrible keystone was? What changed?

[FORD]

Goddamned if I know, Doc

I seem to remember him saying the same thing, as much as he tries to deny taking sides before now.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Goddamned if I know, Doc

I seem to remember him saying the same thing, as much as he tries to deny taking sides before now.

Yeah, there's no doubt he was first against it....

But after listening to his rationale below, I have to say IMO it's the lesser of two evils....