The War is Bullshit

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by MAX
Excellent points Ally. Also, we aren't just doing this all by our lonesome. Why isn't anyone giving props to our stellar friends who are in this effort with us? We should thank the Bristish, our mates from Oz and the Polish for standing beside us.

Afghanistan
Albania
Angola
Australia
Azerbaijan
Bulgaria
Colombia
Costa Rica
Czech Republic
Denmark
Dominican Republic
El Salvador
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Georgia
Honduras
Hungary
Iceland
Italy
Japan
Kuwait
Latvia
Lithuania
Macedonia
Marshall Islands
Micronesia
Mongolia
Netherlands
Nicaragua
Palau
Panama
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Rwanda
Singapore
Slovakia
Solomon Islands
South Korea
Spain (even though they pulled out)
Tonga
Turkey
Uganda
Ukraine
United Kingdom
Uzbekistan

[MAX]

Thanks Ally for being more specific.

[jacksmar]

“not taking sides and making enemies.” – Rikk

I can and I can't believe some guy in this thread said I "hate America" and implying that people like you "hate" America, too. – Phil on jacksmar

You sound like you need the UN, jacksmar. - Phil

The UN should leave the US, Phil. And Rikk that was taking a side. The rest of the world should wonder if the US (we) likes them. Period.

I’m not some blind neocon or some plebe leftist commie lib.

"Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes. And armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended. Its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war . . . and in the degeneracy of manners and morals, engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare." James Madison 1795

Anytime I need a look at the future of the United States, I need only look from where we’ve come. I’m not the conservative type most would put a label on.

http://usembassy.state.gov/islamabad/wwwh03100801.html

You can draw your own conclusions, but I think (there it is!!!!!) Powell has the demeanor, resume, ability, and respect to get most of my attention to the Iraq war matter.

Okay?

[Rikk]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Exactly. It might have been ni our best interest to help out ; Make us look compasionate and that we care. But no, he just stood by. Only acted with stuff that hurt his rating. His PERSONAL rating. Not even the f'in country's.

Not that I support haivng to solve every world problem, but the accounts I've read of what happened over there are horrible. Something could ahve done ot help out at least.

True, true.

At the same time, there's a genocide beginning right now in Sudan, and the Bush administration is one of the few in the world that is denying its importance and trying at all costs to avoid involvement...and for the same reasons Clinton avoided Rwanda: no profit. Seriously, they want to help the Iraqi people? What about helping an entire civilization that is about to be wiped out through vicious murder?

The U.S. call themselves peacekeeprs, and sometimes they are. But in many cases, they'll ignore something. Genocides happen every decade (it's not just the holocaust...a big misconception). The Armenian Genocide (which took several members of my family, including my great-grandmother and great-uncle!), the Ukrainian famine, the Cambodian holocaust, and many many more. Democrat, Republican...both parties have a history of ignoring these tragedies while fully knowing they're happening. If the U.S. is supposed to protect the world, they should stand by that and support proper human rights legislation. We're in Iraq while maybe a million Africans will be slaughtered. And NOTHING is being done about it. The Canadians saved many 100,000 lives in Rwanda with no help from anyone. Maybe this time they could actually be able to work with someone and stop this one.

[Rikk]

Originally posted by jacksmar
“not taking sides and making enemies.” – Rikk

I can and I can't believe some guy in this thread said I "hate America" and implying that people like you "hate" America, too. – Phil on jacksmar

You sound like you need the UN, jacksmar. - Phil

The UN should leave the US, Phil. And Rikk that was taking a side. The rest of the world should wonder if the US (we) likes them. Period.

I’m not some blind neocon or some plebe leftist commie lib.

"Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes. And armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended. Its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war . . . and in the degeneracy of manners and morals, engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare." James Madison 1795

Anytime I need a look at the future of the United States, I need only look from where we’ve come. I’m not the conservative type most would put a label on.

http://usembassy.state.gov/islamabad/wwwh03100801.html

You can draw your own conclusions, but I think (there it is!!!!!) Powell has the demeanor, resume, ability, and respect to get most of my attention to the Iraq war matter.

Okay?

It's not about Powell. It's not about a man. It's about facts and no possible alternative. I don't make my decisions based only on what is told to me on CNN or CBS. I think it's right to do research and also realize that men like Colin Powell may have agendas of their own. To think otherwise is the ultimate in naivety.

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
<marquee scrollamount=9 direction=up>Afghanistan
Albania
Angola
Australia
Azerbaijan
Bulgaria
Colombia
Costa Rica
Czech Republic
Denmark
Dominican Republic
El Salvador
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Georgia
Honduras
Hungary
Iceland
Italy
Japan
Kuwait
Latvia
Lithuania
Macedonia
Marshall Islands
Micronesia
Mongolia
Netherlands
Nicaragua
Palau
Panama
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Rwanda
Singapore
Slovakia
Solomon Islands
South Korea
Spain (even though they pulled out)
Tonga
Turkey
Uganda
Ukraine
United Kingdom
Uzbekistan</marquee>

A bunch of former Soviet commie countries looking for a big brother again in the U.S., oh, and Palau, don't use the people of Palau as a country, Ally_Kat. I like to read you, but you are not fully knowledgeable about all of what you are seeing and writing. Palau is a U.S. base for the 1st Marine Division.. well, I don't have the time to go through each so-called "country" on "our" side, there Ally. Do you think the little islanders there on Palau really care about what happens in Iraq? NO! They don't. They do not. How did the little "country" of Palau find out more about the need of a war to bring "democracy" to Iraq than the little city of Cleveland?

Your theory about "countries" supporting "us" is flawed greatly, dear.

Wake up and learn, Al.

It's the pits of the world. They're all slaves to the Soviets or now the U.S. or wherever their next world meal-ticket is to come from.

Boy, that's a stellar array of "countries" on "our" side for nothing more than bringing "demorcracy" to the little country of Iraq.

Yeh sure.

If you believe that then I'm going to have to stop reading you.

Why?

Because you're smart and have the facts, like this long list, but you don't learn from them.

I'm sorry to say this, but you have a "shallow" explaination of all of your "facts," honey




P

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Rikk
It's called private intelligence. You don't tell the public "It's time to start pannicking...look for terrorists under your beds at night." There is NOTHING the public can do about it. You don't tell them they may be killed tonight but not tell them how or why. That just disrupts the economy. The color alert system is a political smokescreen, nothing more. Few intelligence intellectuals in the country would disagree with this.

Why don't you tell me how it helps to get the country into a panic? What is the public to do when it's an orange alert? Look both ways before crossing the street?

And it's not about avoiding people's bitching. Who cares if people bitch? It's about what's best for the country. People bitch about speed limits and taxes. But they're necessary. You don't just pander to the public. And I don't think for one second they were thinking of the public. I think fear sells ballots, and I think it also makes the American people think that intelligence is really doing something. And maybe they are. But why advertise it?

Yeah, that's what we have. That's what most major countries have.

And when the alert came for Downtown, they told us where and how. I don't support telling all the details. Maybe a lil this is what is suspected, but deffy not everything they know about something. And I know they dont' tell everything.

But, there are some stupid-ass people who live in the world that feel the public should know everything that is handed to every person who works at every intelligence angency on the globe. Trying to tell them you can't do that because suspect Mohammad and his crew will disappear and never show up again is like talking to a brick wall. They'll cry that it's a conspiracy and other random stupid claims about how there's 3 people in a bunker under the Atlantic ocean rulling the world. The system that is out is to placate them and unfortunatly "them" is a good part of the world's (not just America's) population.

Why advertise it? It's the same thing with people who think that going to a ranch means the President's not working that day. The public thinks that if they don't hear about something or don't see people in a certain place talking about it, that it's over and nothing is being done about it.

And quite frankly, if I were president, I would have done similar. One less thing to have the public and media harp me over that I'm not informing the American people and that I'm doing nothing while I'm trying to conduct the affairs of the country.

[Keeyth]

Ally, Ally, Ally... ...the reason we weren't told about the chatter prior to 9-11 is because Bush wanted, no more to the point NEEDED, 9-11 to happen in order to further his plans for this war and to further his global domination in the Middle East... ...I know that is extremely unpallatable to think of, but I truly believe he is that fucking evil... ...and I'm not alone in thinking this.
In fact, if you read "The Grand Chessboard" written in 1997 (FOUR YEARS before 9-11-01) a former aide to Carter and Reagan circled an area called the Caspian Basin (Afghanistan) and said "This is where the next world conflict will be. This is where they have discovered the largest remaining underground oil reserve, and America wants it. However, in order for the American people to get behind an invasion of that country would require an act ON THE LEVEL OF PEARL HARBOR to earn their support."
And what did we get? 9-11.
This was spelled out in this book FOUR YEARS before it happened...
...similar plans are called for in the PNAC (written by Cheney and the BCE) that FORD is always talking about... ...There is a criminal syndicate running this country right now, and they got there by stealing an election... ...we have a sitting president nobody elected... ...our first Commander-in-THIEF... ...why is it so hard to believe you are backing the wrong horse?

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Keeyth
Ally, Ally, Ally... ...the reason we weren't told about the chatter prior to 9-11 is ur first Commander-in-THIEF... ...why is it so hard to believe you are backing the wrong horse?

I have noticed this about her, too. She's so smart. Yet she's stuck on the wrong side for.. some reason.

It's her own personal life. Let her figure it out the next time the lights go out all over the U.S. (and the whole country of Italy and the whole city of London) because a lonesome little old "tree branch" touched a power line in Cleveland. Yeh, right. Haha.



P

[Rikk]

I won't talk about Bush knowing about it beforehand. There's little real evidence of that. But I will say that it certainly helped in terms of giving that administration room to do anything they wanted, foreign policy-wise.

[Rikk]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Yeah, that's what we have. That's what most major countries have.

And when the alert came for Downtown, they told us where and how. I don't support telling all the details. Maybe a lil this is what is suspected, but deffy not everything they know about something. And I know they dont' tell everything.

But, there are some stupid-ass people who live in the world that feel the public should know everything that is handed to every person who works at every intelligence angency on the globe. Trying to tell them you can't do that because suspect Mohammad and his crew will disappear and never show up again is like talking to a brick wall. They'll cry that it's a conspiracy and other random stupid claims about how there's 3 people in a bunker under the Atlantic ocean rulling the world. The system that is out is to placate them and unfortunatly "them" is a good part of the world's (not just America's) population.

Why advertise it? It's the same thing with people who think that going to a ranch means the President's not working that day. The public thinks that if they don't hear about something or don't see people in a certain place talking about it, that it's over and nothing is being done about it.

And quite frankly, if I were president, I would have done similar. One less thing to have the public and media harp me over that I'm not informing the American people and that I'm doing nothing while I'm trying to conduct the affairs of the country.

Your argument is contradictory. You complain about "stupid" people needing to know everything and explain why that is not good. Then you say it's a good idea to pander to the public and let them know everything. That is not logical. Furthermore, if your only goal is to save people (and not pander to the public), don't you think not giving in to "stupid" public pressure is more important?

There has been little intelligence information that has really meant much. It's been fear-mongering. After 9-11, Guiliani urged people to not see terrorists on every sreet corner and to just go out and not be afraid...don't hurt the economy. What does Bush do? He pushed for fear, because it helps his public image. But it sure doesn't help the country, because if there is a threat the public will be no safer with an orange light being revealed on their TV screens.

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Rikk
I won't talk about Bush knowing about it beforehand. There's little real evidence of that. But I will say that it certainly helped in terms of giving that administration room to do anything they wanted, foreign policy-wise.

BOJINKA

Operation BOJINKA

I'd heard and read about Operation BOJINKA long, long before 9/11. You'd have faired better if I were in the White House, I'm sure of that. But you get Bush and Rice instead.

If you need for me to explain for you what Operation BOJINKA was then join Bush and Rice and Co., who I believe have set our country up on purpose for their own long term agendas. Wait till the big 3rd World War starts and they try to consolidate the whole planet.

Yeh, old George never heard of the "one world government" even though I've heard they're building it, a "one world government" right from the lips of David Rockefeller.

But I guess Bush misses all of that; his daddy, too. All of them.

But I will agree with you that Bush doen't know much of anything before hand. His "handlers" do. I believe that.



P

[Ally_Kat]

That's right, I'm wrong and you guys are all right that there's going to be some revolution in a few years where, in this world were every country is out for their own interests (one of the reasons France and Germany cockblocked the UN approval) and can't fully agree on anything, we'll be living under the same leader and somehow be able to make things work.

Everything in this country, and now this world, has been one huge secret conspiracy since JFK's assassination.

I stopped beliving in tall tales when I was little.

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
That's right, I'm wrong and you guys are all right that there's going to be some revolution in a few years where, in this world were every country is out for their own interests (one of the reasons France and Germany cockblocked the UN approval) and can't fully agree on anything, we'll be living under the same leader and somehow be able to make things work.

Everything in this country, and now this world, has been one huge secret conspiracy since JFK's assassination.

I stopped beliving in tall tales when I was little.

Nah, yer on yer period again. We all understand. This happens to you every month



P

[Keeyth]

Phil I have only known you from HitchWorld, and never knew this side of you... ...here's a vote for ya!