The Recording Thread

[BigBadBrian]

I want to record and I'll admit I don't know jack shit about most of it.

Line6, Protools, Sweetwater, etc....fuck, those sites have so much info on them one doesn't know where to start.

Maybe some of you would care to brag about your setups, ie. hardware and software?

jhale, I know we bust each others chops in the Frontline, but I really do have a serious amount of respect for you in the guitar dept. You too, Sesh. Elvis and all you others?

Bassists and drummers welcome!

[jhale667]

I'm here to help, y'know... and on lunch so I've got a sec...

I want to record and I'll admit I don't know jack shit about most of it.

Line6, Protools, Sweetwater, etc....fuck, those sites have so much info on them one doesn't know where to start.

Maybe some of you would care to brag about your setups, ie. hardware and software?

jhale, I know we bust each others chops in the Frontline, but I really do have a serious amount of respect for you in the guitar dept. You too, Sesh. Elvis and all you others?

Bassists and drummers welcome!

Well, OK - since you put it that way...


I'd strongly suggest looking into Pro Tools LE8 (if you're looking to add it to your existing system and not buy a stand-alone HD set-up with a separate Mac, etc). I'm using LE8 with an M-Box II setup on my PC. There IS kind of a learning curve at first, especially if you've never done digital recording before (I'd only dabbled in other programs), so take tons of notes when you watch the tutorial video, but once you figure out the basics and get your system up and running, you'll love it. Plus it's still the industry standard, so anything you record as a .PTF can be taken to ANY commercial studio anywhere and they can pull it and work with it without time con$uming file transfers and crap like that.

I'm contemplating upgrading my system's MB and processor soon, but it works fine on anything P4 (what I'm currently running) or better. You'll need an external HD for your session files (as they can be 1GB each easily), definitely get a Firewire one so you don't have lag issues with that part of it.

As for amp emulation, there's a bunch of routes you could go, but I'm having a blast with Line 6 PODfarm (also using their UX-2 interface). Tons of (expandable) guitar and bass amp emulations to be had, and they all sound pretty decent - especially if you replace their speaker emulation with those from a program (I've also turned DJ on to) called Recabinet. Their cabs sound better than Line 6's IMO, making your whole project sound better.

Just do some research, figure out what you need (and if the system you currently have can take it) and if you can do it on your existing computer system, you can probably come up with a very functional system for not a ton of cash, probably right around/just over a grand if you need studio monitors and whatnot. YMMV.

Best of luck!

[Diamondjimi]

Speaking for myself, I found that when using an external HD for storage as I progressed through my sessions and the track count grew as well as the amount of CPU used for driving all my VST's slowed and made the "real time" stutter" from the demands put on a 2.0 USB port.
I solved this by mounting my storage drive internally via ribbon connection direct to the motherboard port, thus eliminating the transfer rate of a USB port. It makes all the difference when stacking up 30-40 tracks + all the VST's running...

[jhale667]

Speaking for myself, I found that when using an external HD for storage as I progressed through my sessions and the track count grew as well as the amount of CPU used for driving all my VST's slowed and made the "real time" stutter" from the demands put on a 2.0 USB port.
I solved this by mounting my storage drive internally via ribbon connection direct to the motherboard port, thus eliminating the transfer rate of a USB port. It makes all the difference when stacking up 30-40 tracks + all the VST's running...

Yeah, of course you could always use a separate internal drive (meant to mention that), but the Firewire external ones are still faster (and less taxing) than USB 2.0.
Plus it's easier to unplug your external FW drive as opposed to cranking up to take your whole system with you to a session.

[jhale667]

Truth be told...

And just 'cause I keeps it real:


DJ's the one who could actually conduct a tutorial on this subject though...the dude knows his shit!

[Reverberator]

I got good results with my gnx , only thing is is the protracks software is dodgy. Maybe time for a change for me too.

[VanHalenFan5150]

My Peavey amp has a really clean sounding USB out to it, but I only use that when I don't want to wake anyone up. Otherwise I use this really nice Samson mic that I bought a while back... For recording I use Audacity, which, given the circumstances, is a good tool to start off with... I'm good with Pro Tools though!

[Diamondjimi]

Yeah, of course you could always use a separate internal drive (meant to mention that), but the Firewire external ones are still faster (and less taxing) than USB 2.0.
Plus it's easier to unplug your external FW drive as opposed to cranking up to take your whole system with you to a session.

True, Firewire is the shizzle for that type of connection.

Benchmarks show that the sustained data transfer rates are higher for FireWire than for USB 2.0, but lower than USB 3.0. Results are marked on Apple Mac OS X but more varied on Microsoft Windows.[

Linky

And just 'cause I keeps it real:


DJ's the one who could actually conduct a tutorial on this subject though...the dude knows his shit!

Awe shucks, thanks Brutha...:0

[Seshmeister]

I fucked up by not going with Firewire, I strongly recommend you use that rather than attempt to use USB - the cards are now dirt cheap.

I think it's going to be superceded by USB3 but it will take quite a time for that to filter through.

[jhale667]

I fucked up by not going with Firewire, I strongly recommend you use that rather than attempt to use USB - the cards are now dirt cheap.

I think it's going to be superceded by USB3 but it will take quite a time for that to filter through.

True, I wanted a couple of extra FW ports in addition to the main one on my MB, so I picked up a card w/2 external and one internal port & 4 more USB 2.0 's for like $20....

[indeedido]

So I shouldn't be using my shoebox tape recorder to do my demos? One track isn't cool? LOL

[jhale667]

I got good results with my gnx , only thing is is the protracks software is dodgy. Maybe time for a change for me too.

A friend of mine uses his GNX into Cubase with decent results...

So I shouldn't be using my shoebox tape recorder to do my demos? One track isn't cool? LOL

One track is awesome until you want to double-track or layer something, then well...not so much...

[neuralfraud]

Recording

If you want to record, you'll never learn everything, so forget about that!

Start with basic equipment.

Good microphones? Good sound.

Good mixing board? again, good sound.

Bad audio interface? no audio interface?

There is one thing you need to know about computer recording - ASIO. You are going to have to get a dedicated audio recording interface, be it something simple like a 2-in, 2-out, or a 4,6,8,10+ channel interface, these are important because while you *can* record through your computer's built in audio, there is a high latency to it. Chances also are that if your sound chip really sucks, when you try to play over another track, the newly recorded track will be out of sync. Wonderful.

Also, bits, and sample rate.. wtf? Makes a huge difference though!

Most digital recording interfaces are 24bits, some even 32-bit. Your onboard audio may be 16-bit tops. That is 16 bits or 2 bytes of data for each sample your system records, that is, probably 44.1kHz. This is good enough to play back "cd-quality" audio, but not good enough for recording. why? the more bits you have, the more dynamic range you can record, the more information, the better, because after all, you're going to master it, apply EQ, etc, and the higher quality the recording, the btter the end-result will be, even after it's been mixed down to 44k and 16-bit audio, because the recording software will determine the best bits to keep, so to say, or use dithering which can make the audio seem more brilliant than it really is.

In a nutshell, you want at least a solid 24-bit / 96kHz interface to acheive good results. Try to avoid audio interfaces with mixing consoles built in, all you want is a solid audio interface with quality preamps, xlr inputs and/or balanced TRS inputs. Use a regular mixing console if you have one (assuming you're recording something like drums)

As others have described, firewire interfaces are very good. Firewire supports 400 or 800 megabits/sec which is to say, plenty of bandwidth for many digitized audio streams.

USB is a second-rate option in my opinion.

Lastly, PCI or PCIe cards, if you plan to use a dedicated PC for this, might as well find a PCI/PCIe interface, face it - nothing is going to be faster or more precise than something directly connected to your PCI bus. I personally use a M-Audio delta card, with a breakout box that has balanced TRC inputs/outputs. Supports 24/192 and sounds good.

These devices also handle the processing of the signal, and can provide nearly-zero latency, which is another reason sample rate is very important. The more samples you record (for example, 96kHz) the lower the latency. Why?

Latency is determined by the number of samples you record at once. A good device may be able to handle as little as 32 samples at a time, which means it has to do much more processing to keep the audio stream going, but that's fine.

32 samples at 44kHz will take twice as long to process as 32 samples at 96kHz - so by simply going with a highest possible sample rate, you've at least cut your latency in *half* which means you're entering *real time* territory.

If you wanted, you could apply vst plugins to the signal in real time and record the end result, however, I will personally recommend to *NEVER DO THAT*.

Do not apply compression or any other bullshit. Trust me, you'll have plenty of time to do that in software. If you have a hardware compressor, and you record from that, well, you can never restore the original waveform.

So far we have: Mics, Mixing Console, Audio Interface. If those 3 components are decent quality, you'll get decent results.

Finally, software.

Sony ACID - Basic, can support multi track recording, very simple to use program, it'll get the job done

Cakewalk SONAR, Good - full featured, very robust, awesome.

Pro tools - haven't used it, but it's probably the most popular DAW out there.

Using the software is up for you to learn, if you're a newbie, I'd go with acid because its cheap and easy to figure out and you can still get decent results.

Oh, and if you're recording a guitar processor, well, 10 times out of 10 micing a cabinet will sound best. Even if your box has "Cabinet emulation". Cabinet emulation is a good way to do cheap recording, otherwise your guitar will sound incredibly fizzy because none of the singal is being cut off since you're playing through full range speakers, not 12-inch speakers which roll off at 5-6khz!

FINALLY:

Drum micing - there are 10001 ways to mic a drum kit, i personally go with 2 overheads in a "x pattern" to pick up the kit, then a dedicated kick mic, and dedicated snare mic. I've mic'd a whole kit before, and if you can do so, go for it, but most drum mics really get in the frigging way.

If you can though, in addition to the simple setup, try to get a mic near the ride to pick up the ping, and one parallel to the hihats right at the point they meet, as long as you can tune the kick, snare, ride and hihat, your overheads will do a good enough job on the cymbals and other toms, it'll work good.

You dont need "drum mics". sure 57s or 58s on boom stands work VERY well.

HTH

[Diamondjimi]

but most drum mics really get in the frigging way.

Not if you know how to mix properly.....

[jhale667]

Not if you know how to mix properly.....

And as we've both indicated, the D6 emulation in Recabinet is essential to capturing the missing "chest thump" in virtual guitar-amp tracks. Haven't tried it yet, but imagining it works in the really real world too...