Wolfie or Mike? And Why?

[lonnieg5]

Leave my name out of your posts Lamont. I may have questioned his loyalty, but he's entitled to his opinion as much as you are.

if6was9, call me a zealot if you want, that's fine. But I wouldn't change one note on those first 6 albums.

[4moreyears]

Originally posted by kamaboko
Just what the fuck do you think any other base player would have done?

What is a base player?

[if6was9]

Originally posted by lonnieg5
if6was9, call me a zealot if you want, that's fine. But I wouldn't change one note on those first 6 albums.

Do you think I would? I love them as they are. It's just interesting to imagine how (and if) VH's music would change if they replaced Mike with someone else. Maybe we'll be given a chance to hear it?

[DavidLeeNatra]

Originally posted by if6was9
Do you think I would? I love them as they are. It's just interesting to imagine how (and if) VH's music would change if they replaced Mike with someone else. Maybe we'll be given a chance to hear it?

I wouldn't call it "a chance"

[indeedido]

Mikey is a fine bass player. He plays bass, not an overly complicated instrument. He is an easy target to make fun of, like drummers. He has great background harmonies and sits in the pocket with his bass playing. He keeps the rythmn with the drums. that is his job. Not everyone should play like Sheehan. I admire Sheehan's skill, but hate to listen to him tap on a bass, it sounds rediculous. I say bring Mike back in.

[if6was9]

Originally posted by indeedido
Not everyone should play like Sheehan. I admire Sheehan's skill, but hate to listen to him tap on a bass, it sounds rediculous. I say bring Mike back in.

You don't have to chose only Mike's style or Billy's style. There is entire ocean of bassists between Mike and Billy. Plus a small lake of bassists beyond Billy. Bass is not as simple instrument as you think. In fact it's not simple at all, although it's got less strings (well, most of them) than a guitar.

[Plexi Head]

Originally posted by if6was9

BTW, If Mike was so great, why Eddie & Dave wanted to replace him with Billy Sheehan or Jeff Berlin in the early 80s? AFAIK it was Alex who opposed.

Exactly!

You defeat your own argument.
The guy most likely to want to replace the bass player would more than likely be the other half of the rhythm section.

You talk about Eddie wanting to replace Mike? The guy who every six months has "a new best friend"

Cherone was his soul mate, Sammy his greatest bud, the guy is eratic at the best of times.
Ernie Ball are ""the best guitars ever!" Oh no, Peavey are the only guys that really get it right!"
Wait a minute....Fender are the only company that "Really listens"

To say Eddie was going to replace Mike with Jeff Berlin is total crap.
Eddie jammed with him a couple of times and Berlin played bass on the Holdsworth Warners album that Ed was "supposed" to produce but never fronted to the sessions.

Yep, Berlin would have fit right into to the mighty Van Halen, porno stauche and all.

You don't have a clue so shut the fuck up for two minutes.

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by if6was9
Bass is not as simple instrument as you think. In fact it's not simple at all, although it's got less strings (well, most of them) than a guitar.

Just as Plexi said, you defeat your owm argument...

[ZahZoo]

Originally posted by if6was9
Do you think I would? I love them as they are. It's just interesting to imagine how (and if) VH's music would change if they replaced Mike with someone else. Maybe we'll be given a chance to hear it?

I'll go out on limb here and venture that you aren't a musician... right?

Changing the bass player in Van Halen's music won't have the impact you are thinking of. It won't improve... period.

Why? Well let Mr Arrogant tell you...

The key component of VH's song writing is based upon Edward's rhythm playing style. He uses a wide variation of power chords, melodic runs, fills and oddball key manipulations up and down the fretboard within a song. While the basic chordal structure of a given song may be Am, D, G... you won't catch Ed playing traditional chords or strumming structures like most players for more than half a measure. Ed got bored with that years ago.

Combine Ed improvisation style with Al's drums. While a lot of guitar players key off the bass... Ed keys mostly off of the drums. The combination of Ed and Al make up 80% of the song structure from a melodic perspective.

The underlying thing that pulls Ed and Al together are Mike's bass lines. While they may look simple... the interplay within that structure is very very complex in order to produce the right tension between the 3 instruments and sonic range. In majority of the cases... it's a very precarious zone that requires impecable timing, attack and finess to pull it off and fill the right places and time slots within the registers.

OK music lesson is over for the day... Now for the non-musician who continues this assinine prospect that Sheehan would make an impact. Go listen to the EEAS boots where they play CVH tunes and with an honest face tell me the songs sounded better due to the bass..??? Right... bullshit.

To my ears they sounded like shit... Drums weren't there, Vai will never touch Ed and Sheehan didn't bring anything stellar to the table either to make it all better...

Back on subject... Wolfgang Van Halen is at least 15-20 years away from having the experience and talent to hold down bass duties touring with Van Halen. It don't matter about DNA... the 2004 tour appearances Wolfie made sounded like a 13 year old who learned the basic chords while Dad wanked... there was NOT ONE OUNCE of indication this kid was gifted musically in any way, shape or form. He sure as hell didn't go out and rip Eruption better than Dad's worst drunken moments!!! Just Ed's kid playing a few chords... end of fucking story. Hugs, kisses and sappy campy family moment.

Michael Anthony is the bass player for Van Halen... the right one too.

[FORD]

Originally posted by 4moreyears
What is a base player?

This guy was one of the more famous ones, yet not in the Hall of Fame.......

[if6was9]

Originally posted by Plexi Head
The guy most likely to want to replace the bass player would more than likely be the other half of the rhythm section.

Or perhaps the possibility of playing with Sheehan and Berlin scared the shit out of Alex. Without Mike, he would become the weakest link in the chain. Mike was always dominated by other members of the band. Do you think Billy, Jeff or any other bass player (except Wolfie) would be so submissive, too?

[DavidLeeNatra]

Originally posted by FORD
This guy was one of the more famous ones, yet not in the Hall of Fame.......

what great start in the day...

[if6was9]

Originally posted by ZahZoo
I'll go out on limb here and venture that you aren't a musician... right?

You got me here! :D

Originally posted by ZahZoo
The underlying thing that pulls Ed and Al together are Mike's bass lines. While they may look simple... the interplay within that structure is very very complex in order to produce the right tension between the 3 instruments and sonic range. In majority of the cases... it's a very precarious zone that requires impecable timing, attack and finess to pull it off and fill the right places and time slots within the registers.

Complex structures? Oh, c'mon. What surprises me most in VH's music is the gap (or rather abyss) between Ed's progressive & visionary style and Mike's absolutely archaic concept of playing bass. Most of the time he just follows Eddie's riffs, or plays the root notes with the bass drum, or tries to play simple walking patterns. All of this plus timing, attack and intonation is bassist's ABC. Almost every time he tries to add something and "decorate" the bass line, it sounds outdated, like a music from the 60s or early 70s. Constrained counterpoints, poor polyrhythmia, twanging strings. It's a bit tiresome and boring, don't you think? Bass players made unbelievable progress since then, but Mike seemed not to realize this simple fact and musically stopped in his school days. Though I must admit he had some good moments on "Diver Down".

BTW, Wasn't it Ed who claimed that Mike's musical input for VH's music was ZERO? Van Halen without Mike is still Van Halen. But who is Mike without Van Halen?

Originally posted by ZahZoo
Combine Ed improvisation style with Al's drums. While a lot of guitar players key off the bass... Ed keys mostly off of the drums. The combination of Ed and Al make up 80% of the song structure from a melodic perspective.

OK music lesson is over for the day... Now for the non-musician who continues this assinine prospect that Sheehan would make an impact. Go listen to the EEAS boots where they play CVH tunes and with an honest face tell me the songs sounded better due to the bass..??? Right... bullshit.

To my ears they sounded like shit... Drums weren't there, Vai will never touch Ed and Sheehan didn't bring anything stellar to the table either to make it all better...

You miss the point again. Van Halen wasn't about Eddie's improvisations + Al's drums, but about Eddie's magic riffs. Everything else was secondary. EEAS wasn't riff-based, but voice-based, probably bacause Vai couldn't make up good riffs. This "small" distinction completely changes the very concept of the band, the position of the bassist and the drummer are not the same as in VH. Besides, EEAS wasn't VH cover band, it was a different animal. Listen to their original material, you'll have an idea what was going on between Billy and Gregg. They were eaons ahead of Mike and Al.

[kamaboko]

Hell, Ed wouldn't know what to do with a great bass player. Like it or not, Ed's music is about ED. How long do you think Sheehan would have lasted with Ed? Maybe a tour at best.

Listen to Ed's rhythm guitar tracks. They require a constant thump, thump, thump damn near 70% of the time. For instance, what the hell would Sheehan do to any of the songs on the 1st album? His shit would fuck them up. Mike is perfect for this band.

Christ, some of you people talk like VH would be the next Rush or something. Sorry, Ed isn't that good (b/c he's used the same fucking riffs for the past 20 years), and Mike is definitely not up to the challenge.

[if6was9]

Originally posted by kamaboko
For instance, what the hell would Sheehan do to any of the songs on the 1st album?

I have no idea, but I'm curious. If you missed something, we're not talking here about Sheehan playing the 1st album. The 1st album has been recorded ages ago, this is history.

It's funny how some of you guys seem to know everything about things that never happened, without asking any questions. You just know it. Thank God, life is full of surprises, especially when it comes to Eddie Van Halen - the most unpredictable man in show business.