Billy Sheehan approached 5 separate times to join VH

[kwame k]

Nucleus of the band, for me, was always Roth and Ed.

The spark of what CVH had was still present in 2008, despite Ed's erratic performance and in spite of Anthony not being there.

I can't say the same thing about the years when Roth wasn't in the band and Anthony was.

Can't deny that, Terry. I'm subjective but........it was Roth and Ed, period.

You know drummer bullshit and although Alex isn't Peart, his sound and his groove drove that band. I've always been a fan but I never realized how much of an impact Roth had on the musical direction or evolution of the band's sound or how much he was responsible for it. I bought into the hype, the persona of Diamond Dave......then I heard 5150........if that's what Van Halen without Dave sounds like.......well, the only thing that changed was Spammy joined the band. 3/4th of the band was intact and the boy genius, the serious musician was now free to write anything that he could imagine.

The proof is in the pudding, so to speak.

[hideyoursheep]

..then I heard 5150........if that's what Van Halen without Dave sounds like.......well, the only thing that changed was Spammy joined the band. 3/4th of the band was intact and the boy genius, the serious musician was now free to write anything that he could imagine.

Nah, I think you're wrong on that one. The songs were more than likely already written by that time, and Bette fucke up the entire vibe IMO.

I will point to the shit that came out as OU812 as evidence that Hagar had a little more to do with enabling EVH to get soft than he might get credit for.

Finish What Ya Started ?

[Carloscda]

If you listen to alot of the boots from 83/84 you cab hear Eddie playing riffs from 5150.

[hideyoursheep]

If you listen to alot of the boots from 83/84 you cab hear Eddie playing riffs from 5150.

He's been known to do such things..

[Carloscda]

He's been known to do such things..

lol.. I piggy backed on what you said about the 5150 stuff being already written.

[ULTRAMAN VH]

I look at Mikey like Ringo in the Beatles, he may not of been the most talented of the group, may not of played on every song but he was there, played on the early stuff, and you can't listen to most of the CVH songs and not hear him. He's there and is part of the legacy, no matter how much Ed or anyone else wants to obfuscate him.

Agreed, I don't think VH would have had the early success they earned with a different line up. The chemistry between the 4 worked well and their individual contributions to the music and showmanship put VH well above the pack. Like him or hate him Anthony's playing gave Ed a forum to do just about whatever he wanted and his backup vocals can't be denied.

[ZahZoo]

On one hand a busy bass player in that band wouldn't fit over what Ed was doing in the old days, but you can also make the argument that he was buried so low in the mix that how would that matter.

Anthony's background vocals on On Fire made gave that track much more kick. Vocally he seemed to click better with Dave than any other background vocalist did afterwards.
I don't see how Ed could discount the guy's harmonies but maybe it wasn't just about the music.
A busy bassist would have been too much back then, since Ed's fills were great enough.

You bring up an interesting point... Templeman put Ed's guitar in the front of the mix without a doubt.

But on the other hand, Mike's bass work was so well integrated with Al's rhythmic drumming into the foundation Ed played on top of... there was no reason to position the bass more dominately in the mix. It fit perfectly. That foundation was sonically balanced across the spectrum... especially for Ed's guitar and Dave's vocals.

One thing that always struck me, especially back in the Dave era was how powerful Mike's bass playing was live compared to the record versions. Quite frankly it made several of their hit songs even better and definately a harder edge.

I'm glad that no one supported the change no matter how much fucked up Ed was romancing Sheehan. It was unnecessary... plus even if they booted Mike... the same production crew would have "buried" Sheehan under Ed's guitar in the studio. So the end result wouldn't have been anything better. Plus given the bullshit... Sheehan wouldn't have lasted half as long as Mike.

[Nickdfresh]

I look at Mikey like Ringo in the Beatles, he may not of been the most talented of the group, may not of played on every song but he was there, played on the early stuff, and you can't listen to most of the CVH songs and not hear him. He's there and is part of the legacy, no matter how much Ed or anyone else wants to obfuscate him.

Mike's backing vocals are a huge part of CVH, and his much derided bass skills are the result of him being told to play a bland line so that Ed could do his guitar acrobatics in the songs...

When Ed supposedly played bass, I think he played much the same way. And the whole Billy Sheehan thing is a red herring. Yeah, he's a great bass player from Buffalo, but he's also a scientologist. Hardly my favorite type of rock and roll icon...

[Terry]

Can't deny that, Terry. I'm subjective but........it was Roth and Ed, period.

You know drummer bullshit and although Alex isn't Peart, his sound and his groove drove that band. I've always been a fan but I never realized how much of an impact Roth had on the musical direction or evolution of the band's sound or how much he was responsible for it. I bought into the hype, the persona of Diamond Dave......then I heard 5150........if that's what Van Halen without Dave sounds like.......well, the only thing that changed was Spammy joined the band. 3/4th of the band was intact and the boy genius, the serious musician was now free to write anything that he could imagine.

The proof is in the pudding, so to speak.

3/4's of the band was intact after Roth left, but the musical direction and sound was markedly different.

Without a strong producer and Roth to act as a foil, Ed WAS essentially left to his own devices, and what that confirmed to me is that he's not capable of running the band in a way that produces any real results of interest for me.

[sonrisa salvaje]

Hot Summer Nights is the only song i go back to on 5150 and jam. Imagine what it could have been with Dave's lyrics and vibe.

[Nickdfresh]

Supposedly it was. What became "Summer Nights" was to be called "Eat Thy Neighbor." At least half of 5150 was already written when Dave left in April of 1985...

[WesGriffin]

Most of 5150 WAS written before Sammy, But the production is too polished. Too soft and easy on the ears. Imagine how less time spent in the studio and Roth's involvment would've made that album sound. Back to the subject, though; Mike's job was to support the band with his back-bass and support Dave with his high pitched backing vocals, period. Not dis-crediting him. He did his job well. Sheehan couldn't humble himself for the position.

[Nickdfresh]

Sammy's voice isn't "easy" on my "ears."

[Terry]

Supposedly it was. What became "Summer Nights" was to be called "Eat Thy Neighbor." At least half of 5150 was already written when Dave left in April of 1985...

And said music that had been written before Roth bailed was enough to cause Dave to lose interest upon hearing it.

[Nitro Express]

I think Ed got so full of himself that he thought he could put anyone in Van Halen and it still would work. Ed is a drunk who lives in the moment and he's also a creative type. Ed gets drunk and bored of the same lineup. Oh, let's can someone and replace them with the flavor of the month. I think that's how Ed's mind works. Ed would have canned Sheehan to put Wolfie in the band as well and then Ed probably would say Wolf is already as good or better than Sheehan. Pass the Loon. I'm thirsty and Matt, score some more crystal meth or your butt kissing ass is fired!