New album soon

[Terry]

Excellent analysis, per usual. The part above is really the only place where I have a different opinion- I don't think they ever seriously considered bringing Dave back permanently. Cherone has stated that he was hired before the VMAs and I don't have any particular reason to believe he wasn't being truthful. I suppose it could be argued that they were feeling things out with Dave before turning to Cherone, but that just doesn't seem right to me. I think Ed's comments about not wanting to move backwards were an accurate representation of his motivations at the time and not just post hoc excuses for his actions.

To me, the ultimate irony is that the Van Halens totally underestimated how strong the sentiment was (outside their bubble that is) for Dave to be back in. In essence, the thing they wanted least is what most everyone else wanted the most! (Except the Hagar fans of course, who were most likely horrified at the thought of Dave rampaging over their era)

Well, so much of the various scenarios depend on developing a more certain than vague timeline in terms of exactly when who was approached and particular dates specific activities were undertaken...all of which is something I haven't bothered to figure out. Mostly laziness on my part, but the generalized "it happened sometime during the summer of 1996" timeframe does leave the door open.

I mean, if Hagar is correct that Ed called him on Father's Day and told him that Roth was already working with the band, that does leave a significant period of time between that event and the VMAs where the band could have been considering Roth before Cherone had even met the band and been anything to the band other than a name on a slip of paper their manager gave them to consider.

It would be hard to imagine that Eddie hadn't at least considered Roth being involved with band beyond the BOV1 stuff. As to when that thought was dismissed in Ed's mind is anyone's guess.

[vanhalendlrband]

Which, in and of itself, leads to a more defining question: What of the Mitch Malloy deal? At one point, he was a sure thing, until he apparently caught a good wiff of what the VH franchise was up to, suggested they get Roth back, and was instantly dismissed. Next thing ya know, VH is being managed by Ray Daniels, who did wonders with Rush but apparently could not find his own dick if it was located in a box of Cracker Jacks when it came to other groups he "handled". In comes Gary Cherone from Extreme (yup, one of Daniels' managing triumphs) supposedly writing words that the great St. Edward wrote the music toward. The VH III album was released to a worldwide yawn, mainly because it sucked worse than that God-awful Genesis record that came out after Phil Collins left.

And that was the beginning of a very public downward spiral )2004, meth, porn soundtracks, ect.), an adventure that more than likely killed off all but the most ravenous fans.

The cold hard truth is that these days, aside from devotees like us, Van Halen rates somewhere around REO Speedwagon and Huey Lewis & The News to the general public. Despite their accomplishments, if you asked anyone under the age of say 40, who the fuck these 3 bands were, you'd get nothing in return other than a blank stare.

That's reality, folks. If you are old-school, then chances are you just might happen to be old. I don't have a problem with that, yet I do see myself turning into my parents at times. Yet rather than bitching at kids to turn that shit down, I simply crank my own shit even louder, and merely drink more. It's that simple.

Naw, lots of people know who they are still. Most of the people at the show in 2007 that i was at were under 30 including myself. The fact they sold 220,000 their 1st week up against Adelle was better than anybody else did. Most #1 albums debuts i've read since Adelle's album finally went down was 70-100,000 Van Halen doubled their numbers and just happened to go up against this decades phenomenon.

I've never met anyone that didn't know who they were, REO Speedwagon and Huey Lewis, definitely. lol I've been on this site since i was 13 or 14 too. Everyone in my class knew who they were back then. Everyone gets exposed to Van Halen at sporting events and all around i don't think you could listen to a whole heck of a lot of music without stumbling over at least one Van Halen song even if its "you really got me" or "Jump".

[VHscraps]

Naw, lots of people know who they are still. Most of the people at the show in 2007 that i was at were under 30 including myself. The fact they sold 220,000 their 1st week up against Adelle was better than anybody else did. Most #1 albums debuts i've read since Adelle's album finally went down was 70-100,000 Van Halen doubled their numbers and just happened to go up against this decades phenomenon.

I've never met anyone that didn't know who they were, REO Speedwagon and Huey Lewis, definitely. lol I've been on this site since i was 13 or 14 too. Everyone in my class knew who they were back then. Everyone gets exposed to Van Halen at sporting events and all around i don't think you could listen to a whole heck of a lot of music without stumbling over at least one Van Halen song even if its "you really got me" or "Jump".

best avatar ever.

you'd have to be wearing a cup - just in case - if you met that old biddy.

[Edwards3rdWife]

Yeah - you're right about that. I remember Ed saying they (the band, the producer, etc) had to let Dave bring all his exotic plants down to the studio so he could feel at home, and implying that the vocals for one or both of the tunes were done a line at a time and "we had to be very patient with Dave".

In David's book he says that they stuck him in a windowless cement room in the back of the studio with little communication. Nobody let him DO anything, HE decided to make his own self at home. He brought in palm trees and lights and a boom box and guess where everybody else wanted to hang out during idle time ? Club Dave !

[wolfsbane]

So, youz guyz is trying to figure out what was going through EVH's head concerning the singers. Let's look at this from a different perspective. Deep Purple was started as a band that was supposed to be great musicians playing together. It was supposed to be somewhat of a revolving door where musicians come and go. What if EVH has this perspective. Maybe he sees VH as a band like Deep Purple, Rainbow, Whitesnake, DLR band, Santana as well as others that change members constantly. He does not understand what the big deal is about DLR. This may be also why he is ok with Wolfgang being the bassist.

Maybe he thought that giving VH fans albums with Roth, Hagar, Cherone, Malloy gives different flavors for the fans. Maybe he thinks he is giving the fans alot for their palates.

Just a thought.

[DLR Bridge]

The "revolving door" effect was, in a sense, how Dave explained, the absence of Mike during the 2007 press conference, so in a manner of speaking, you are correct.

[VAiN]

So, youz guyz is trying to figure out what was going through EVH's head concerning the singers. Let's look at this from a different perspective. Deep Purple was started as a band that was supposed to be great musicians playing together. It was supposed to be somewhat of a revolving door where musicians come and go. What if EVH has this perspective. Maybe he sees VH as a band like Deep Purple, Rainbow, Whitesnake, DLR band, Santana as well as others that change members constantly. He does not understand what the big deal is about DLR. This may be also why he is ok with Wolfgang being the bassist.

Maybe he thought that giving VH fans albums with Roth, Hagar, Cherone, Malloy gives different flavors for the fans. Maybe he thinks he is giving the fans alot for their palates.

Just a thought.

Well, he thought wrong. EVH is the best rock & roll guitar player ever but the worst band leader ever. Stick to what you know, Ed.

[Zing!]

The different Flavors thing does kind of make sense, but then you're giving Ed way too much credit for having a half a brain to think of that in the first place. I have always thought that kind of plotting and scheming was way too complex for him. Al maybe.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

I would love to see VH's next tour hit the summertime ampitheater circuit....

I begrudgingly went with my buddy to Van Cherone in my back yard here at the Amptiheater in '98....

[VAiN]

I would love to see VH's next tour hit the summertime ampitheater circuit....

I begrudgingly went with my buddy to Van Cherone in my back yard here at the Amptiheater in '98....

No shit man, I'd LOVE to catch them at an outdoor venue. We have a great amphitheater about 40 min North in Palm Beach or 40 min South in Miami.. Bring the VH!

[Terry]

So, youz guyz is trying to figure out what was going through EVH's head concerning the singers. Let's look at this from a different perspective. Deep Purple was started as a band that was supposed to be great musicians playing together. It was supposed to be somewhat of a revolving door where musicians come and go. What if EVH has this perspective. Maybe he sees VH as a band like Deep Purple, Rainbow, Whitesnake, DLR band, Santana as well as others that change members constantly. He does not understand what the big deal is about DLR. This may be also why he is ok with Wolfgang being the bassist.

Maybe he thought that giving VH fans albums with Roth, Hagar, Cherone, Malloy gives different flavors for the fans. Maybe he thinks he is giving the fans alot for their palates.

Just a thought.

Well, I don't really think Van Halen was started initially with the revolving lineup concept. In the early days, it seemed like the lineup eventually settled on the Roth/Van Halens/Anthony grouping more from a process of elimination than anything else: the guys eventually joined up as their twenties rolled forward and the mutual level of commitment to playing rock music as a career became evident.

Apparently Ed Van Halen never thought too highly of Mike Anthony's abilities on the creative front. However, Anthony played what he was told (or whatever suited the song), had great backing vocals, was loyal and didn't cause a fuss. Now, Ed might have thought about getting a different bass player in there in the early 1980s and the mid 1990s, but considering his problems with Roth and Hagar, Mike Anthony was probably for a long time a case of "it works well enough, it ain't broke, so leave it alone for now".

Far as singers go, I think by the time Hagar left the band, Ed may well have thought that Van Halen had a built-in level of automatic success going forward that it really didn't matter too much who sang for them. Turned out not to be true in the end, but I could see where Ed might have thought that. By 2003, Van Halen was basically defunct, so at that point it really didn't matter who played bass for them. I mean, yeah, I wish Anthony was still there, but I have a suspicion that if Wolfgang hadn't joined the band the odds are just as likely that Van Halen wouldn't have done much of anything post-2004: short of getting Roth back, Van Halen didn't really have many moves left to make far as selling out arenas went. I don't think Ed came to the conclusion that getting Dave back and really making a concerted effort to make that work was the way to go until after the 2004 tour debacle/Anthony's permanent dismissal/Wolfgang joining, and Wolfgang's influence on his father after joining the band (considering where things stood from 1996 to 2006) has been nothing other than positive.

This is a little bit different from Deep Purple, who had success prior to the Mark II lineup, and Deep Purple was quite a bit different from Rainbow. Although Blackmore exerted quite a bit of his personality over Deep Purple, I never quite considered Deep Purple Blackmore's band...at least not until the Burn album. Rainbow certainly WAS set up as a Blackmore vehicle. Rainbow definitely WAS Blackmore's band.

I never considered Van Halen to be Eddie's band until after Hagar left.

[78/84 guy]

Van Halen was always a group effort I.M.O. Up through Hagar anyways. Gary was in over his head with Eddie. I think he just went along for the ride. He never tried to take charge of how the songs should be recorded. So that didn't help things as far as VH3 went. I haven't heard most of it but what I did hear was bad. At the end of the day they were lucky they found a new fan base with Sam. Trying it again wasn't a good idea at all. They must have thought nobody would care if the songs were good. They were wrong ! Bringing Dave in for those 2 songs was the dumb if they knew the were going to go with Mitch or Gary. People had been waiting for that reunion for 12 years at that point, than they get fucked out of it. Yea not a good idea !

[wolfsbane]

If Wolfgang does not get his way, then Roth is never brought back.

VH would still be in the 1996-2005 phase. Yechhhhh!