The NHL Lockout...does anyone REALLY CARE?

[Bob_R]

Originally posted by Lou
I hear now they're moving it back to Wednesday. What cocksuckers. Get it over with!

I heard this afternoon on the radio that there's a chance of a compromise. :p :p

I hope the season is salvaged just so it pisses you off.

Like Va said what the fuck do you care?

At least the Flyers give Philly a reasonable chance to finally win a championship. What's it been? Like 22 years or something since Philly won a championship?

McNabb played a helluva game in the Super Bowl huh?

CHOKE!!!!!!!!!!!

[Golden AWe]

Originally posted by Lou
I hear now they're moving it back to Wednesday. What cocksuckers. Get it over with!

get laid

[Nickdfresh]

Could it be Magic? A Breakthrough???

NHL, Players Give Ground in Negotiations
Tuesday, February 15, 2005 3:30 PM EST
The Associated Press
By IRA PODELL

In what could be a last-second breakthrough, both sides of the NHL lockout have given significant ground: The players' association will accept a salary cap, and the league has backed off its demand for a link between revenues and player costs.

Now they just have to figure out the money, and time has all but run out.

Even while the negotiations were going on, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman already had planned to announce the cancellation of the season Wednesday, a source close to the negotiations told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity Monday.

Bettman was slated to speak Wednesday in New York, but the NHL declined to give details beyond the time and location.

The NHL offered to give in on linkage, a "significant move in the players' direction" the union said early Tuesday following a meeting in Niagara Falls, N.Y.

But when the players offered to accept a cap at $52 million in return _ the first time they came off their opposition to a ceiling on salaries _ the offer was rejected by the NHL. The league insisted on a salary cap that topped out at $40 million per team.

"It is indeed unfortunate that with the major steps taken by both sides we were unable to build enough momentum to reach an agreement," players' association senior director Ted Saskin said.

The NHL had no comment Tuesday on the union's statement.

No new talks were immediately scheduled, but with the philosophical differences now bridged, there appeared to be room for the sides to negotiate dollar figures.

"We probably could've gotten this thing done in the summertime," Chicago forward Matthew Barnaby said. "Am I mad, no? I want to get back to work. But at the same time, I'm just a little disappointed that it went this far to play poker and to have someone call your bluff."

The 24 percent rollback on all existing contracts, originally offered by the union on Dec. 9, as well as more aggressive luxury tax rates and thresholds, were included in the players' counteroffer.

Buffalo Sabres player representative Jay McKee was surprised Tuesday when he heard the union would accept a cap.

"If that's where we were going, I wonder why now," he said.

With the major stumbling blocks now out of the way, the sides are only $12 million apart on what each team's cap should be. With the salary rollback, only eight of the 30 teams would be above $40 million.

Until now, Bettman insisted that the 30 teams know what their costs will be each season. The only way, he said, that could be achieved was to tie to the amount of player costs to a percentage of league revenues.

That was a solution the players' association refused.

NHL chief legal officer Bill Daly was the only other person involved in the meeting that wrapped up early Tuesday. The NHL reported that no progress was made, but didn't reveal any details of what was discussed.

If a deal is not reached quickly, the NHL would become the first major professional league in North America to lose an entire season because of a labor dispute. The Stanley Cup has been awarded every year since 1919, when a flu epidemic canceled the finals.

But more than two-thirds of the season and the All-Star game already have been lost to a lockout that started Sept. 16.

Bettman said the sides needed to start putting a deal on paper by last weekend if the NHL was going to hold a 28-game season and a full 16-team playoff. The regular season normally is 82 games.

Even a session with a federal mediator Sunday in Washington couldn't produce an agreement. But it did lead to the breakthrough in talks Monday.

Bettman had said teams needed to have cost certainty to survive and the only way he could guarantee that was with a salary cap that linked league revenues to player costs. Now that position has changed for the first time since the NHL started gearing up for the lockout in 1998.

The league has said teams lost $273 million in 2002-03 and $224 million last season, and an economic study commissioned by the NHL found that players get 75 percent of league revenues. The union has challenged those figures.

A cap had been an automatic deal-breaker for the union even though it agreed that the financial landscape was flawed. The players' association contended that there are many other ways to fix it.

"There is no question the system has to change," said New Jersey Devils president Lou Lamoriello, who took part in earlier negotiating sessions. "We just have to keep working to find a solution. It's unfortunate we have to come this.

"If the season does end, we can't stop. We have to continue working at this and get it rectified as soon as we possibly can."

Monday, the 152nd day of the lockout, was to have been the last day of the All-Star break; the festivities in Atlanta were called off months earlier. Through Monday, 824 of the 1,230 regular-season games have been lost.

"Everybody has to take responsibility," Lamoriello said.

The sides have traded proposals throughout the lockout, but the salary cap had always been the sticking point. Other issues such as arbitration, revenue-sharing, and rookie caps never reached the true negotiating stage because the sides couldn't agree on the big issue.

In recent days, the union and league seemed adamant that they wouldn't budge.

"We're done," Saskin said Thursday after talks broke off.

On Sunday, Daly said: "We will not be reaching out to them."

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Melrose and Hradek were just on ESPNEWS....

Nothing earthshattering, but Melrose is predicting they'll announce a deal tomorrow....

Doing a lot of reading on the various hockey websites, seems that there will be some pissed off players because of the cap, and some pissed off owners, because of the lack of linkage....

Oh well, that's what compromising is all about....

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
Melrose and Hradek were just on ESPNEWS....

Nothing earthshattering, but Melrose is predicting they'll announce a deal tomorrow....

Doing a lot of reading on the various hockey websites, seems that there will be some pissed off players because of the cap, and some pissed off owners, because of the lack of linkage....

Oh well, that's what compromising is all about....

I don't know. I think a lot of the lower payed guys were pissed that the league may have contracted. It seems the anti-Salary Cap faction was the wealthier players that would have lost the most.

[ALinChainz]

Bettman letter to Goodenow

February 16, 2005


NEW YORK (CP) - Text of a letter Tuesday from NHL commissioner Gary Bettman to NHL Players' Association executive director Bob Goodenow (all dollar figures U.S.):

Dear Bob:

We attempted to reach out to you with yesterday's offer of a team maximum cap of $42.2 million ($40 million in salary and $2.2 million in benefits) which was not linked to league-wide revenues. As Bill told Ted, "de-linking" a maximum team salary cap from league revenues and total league-wide player compensation has always been problematic for us, especially since we cannot now quantify the damage to the League from the lockout. This presents the risk we will pay out more than we can afford. As you know, if all 30 teams were to spend to the maximum we proposed, and if the damage to our business is as we discussed at our meetings in New York, then the league would continue to lose money.


I know, as do you, that the "deal" we can make will only get worse for the players if we cancel the season - whatever damage we have suffered to date will pale in comparison to the damage from a cancelled season and we will certainly not be able to afford what is presently on the table. Accordingly, I am making one final effort to reach out to make a deal that will let us play this season.

We are increasing our offer of yesterday by increasing the maximum individual team cap to $44.7 million ($42.5 million in salary and $2.2 million in benefits). This offer is not an invitation to begin negotiations - it's too late for that.

This is our last effort to make a deal that's fair to the players and one that the clubs (hopefully) can afford. We have no more flexibility and there is no time for further negotiation.

If this offer is acceptable, please let me know by 11:00 A.M. tomorrow, in advance of my scheduled press conference. Hopefully, the press conference will not be necessary.

Sincerely

Gary B. Bettman

Commissioner

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slug=cp-nhl_lockout_letter_tab&prov=cp&type=lgns

[Va Beach VH Fan]

There's so much excitement now as if it's gonna happen, people are gonna be crushed if the Union refuses that last offer.....

[Bob_R]

NHL makes 'final offer'
Story Tools: Print Email
Ira Podell / Associated Press
Posted: 1 hour ago


NEW YORK (AP) - The NHL made a take-it-or-leave-it pitch to the players' association on Tuesday, just hours before the North American pro ice hockey season was set to be canceled altogether.

The league bumped its salary-cap proposal from $40 million to $42.5 million and gave the union until 11 a.m. Wednesday (1600 GMT) to accept. If it is rejected, the season would be canceled two hours later, according to a letter sent by commissioner Gary Bettman to players' association executive director Bob Goodenow.

"This offer is not an invitation to begin negotiations - it's too late for that," Bettman said in the letter obtained by The Associated Press. "This is our last effort to make a deal that's fair to the players and one that the clubs (hopefully) can afford. We have no more flexibility and there is no time for further negotiation."

In the final bargaining session on Monday between NHL chief legal officer Bill Daly and players' association senior director Ted Saskin, the league dropped its long-standing demand for a link between revenues and player costs.

In return, the union came off its reluctance to a salary cap - and proposed one.

The cap the players offered was a soft cap of $52 million, a source close to the negotiations told The AP on condition of anonymity. Teams would be allowed to spend up to 10 percent above that three times in six years, but would be subject to an escalating luxury tax on anything above $40 million.

"We probably could've gotten this thing done in the summertime. Am I mad? No. I want to get back to work. But at the same time, I'm just a little disappointed that it went this far to play poker, to have someone call your bluff."

— Chicago Blackhawks forward Matthey Barnaby

While Monday's talks were still ongoing, Bettman scheduled a Wednesday news conference with the intention of announcing that there wouldn't be any hockey until at least next fall.

"Hopefully, the press conference will not be necessary," Bettman said in the letter.

Now the pressure shifts to the players. Some stated on Tuesday they were surprised that the union accepted a salary cap this late in the game.

"We probably could've gotten this thing done in the summertime," Chicago forward Matthew Barnaby said. "Am I mad? No. I want to get back to work. But at the same time, I'm just a little disappointed that it went this far to play poker and to have someone call your bluff."

Daly met one-on-one with Saskin in Niagara Falls, New York on Monday and presented an offer that removed the owners' desired link between league revenues and player costs.

The players' association refused to agree to that kind of tie-in since the union doesn't trust what the league claims as its revenue total. Once the NHL dropped that requirement, the players came off their refusal of a salary cap.

"Obviously, the two sides have moved off of things they never said they'd move," free agent defenseman James Patrick said. "It would be a shame if you don't bridge the gap or come to some compromise. Even though both sides rejected each other, it puts us in the ballpark I think."

The source added that the NHL's proposal on Monday was for a hard cap at $40 million with a 50 percent tax penalty for teams that spend between $34-40 million.

Now the sides are faced with a hard deadline to make a deal and salvage a season that was already going to be cut down from 82 games per team to 28.

A central component to all offers is a 24 percent rollback on existing contracts that was first presented by the players' association in its Dec. 9 framework. On the adjusted scale, only eight of the 30 teams would have finished last season above $40 million. The average team payroll was $33.95 million, with the rollback factored in.

Without the rollback, the Detroit Red Wings had the highest payroll at the end of last season with $82.9 million; the Pittsburgh Penguins were the lowest at $21.65 million.

If a deal is not reached, the NHL would become the first major professional league in North America to lose an entire season because of a labor dispute. The Stanley Cup has been awarded every year since 1919, when a flu epidemic canceled the finals.

As of Tuesday, the 153rd day of the lockout, 834 of the 1,230 regular-season games and the All-Star game already have been lost to a lockout that started Sept. 16.

[Lou]

What a stupid season that would be if that did happen.

This is where the hard-core hockey fans are just out of touch with how the rest of the world thinks. The hard-core hockey fan would say, "Oooh it's gonna be great! They're gonna be so desperate, every game is gonna be intense!"

I say, "The playoffs are longer than the regular season. What a joke."

[Nickdfresh]

Wow Lou, such anger and passion regarding a sport you hate. You sound more pissed that the game might come back. Piss on you!

[Lou]

I'm VERY pissed that the game has a good chance of coming back now. I'd love nothing more than to see the pride and joy of Buffalo go down.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Lou
I'm VERY pissed that the game has a good chance of coming back now. I'd love nothing more than to see the pride and joy of Buffalo go down.

Good, 'cause I enjoyed watching Philly fall on their face in the Superbowl like they did in the NFC championship game three years running.

Such a negative ninny Lou(zer). No wonder why you're so loved here.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Dunno, gotta bad feeling with two hours to go....

Bettman, so far anyway, ain't budging from the 42.5M cap.....

Originally posted by Lou
I say, "The playoffs are longer than the regular season. What a joke."

Unlike the NBA, right Lou ???

[Nickdfresh]

Update from Niagara Falls, NY

GARY BETTMAN:
NHL, union keep trying to bridge gap,
Proposals continue with clock ticking

By TIM GRAHAM
News Sports Reporter
2/16/2005
"This offer is not an invitation to begin negotiations - it's too late for that."
The hockey world has been on hold since the NHL lockout began five months ago, and the uncertainty about a season shouldn't last one day longer. The answer, whether good or bad, is expected this afternoon.

The league made a take-it-or-leave-it proposal Tuesday night, only to have the NHL Players' Association reject it with a counteroffer a few hours later.

NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman is prepared to call off the season at 1 p.m. today in New York. He has imposed an 11 a.m. deadline to hear if the NHLPA would avert the cancellation by accepting a $42.5 million salary cap.

"This offer is not an invitation to begin negotiations - it's too late for that," Bettman wrote in an open letter to NHLPA Executive Director Bob Goodenow. "This is our last effort to make a deal that's fair to the players and one that the clubs (hopefully) can afford. We have no more flexibility and there is no time for further negotiation."

Goodenow responded around 10 p.m. with a "final attempt to reach an agreement" - a $49 million salary cap. An hour later Bettman rejected the union's counterproposal and reiterated his 11 a.m. deadline.

At 12:15 this morning, Goodenow sent another letter to Bettman, stating "You will receive nothing further from us."

Reports were circulating the NHLPA would consider a $45 million salary cap, a proposal backed by Jeremy Roenick, Jarome Iginla and Chris Pronger. The superstars took it upon themselves to circumvent Goodenow and canvas the membership for support to save the season before the union made its salary-cap concession Monday night.

Some members were displeased at the potentially mutinous tactic.

"A number of guys went behind our backs," New York Islanders center Michael Peca said. "It isn't right. They're doing something unethical. I can say with 100 percent certainty (Goodenow) had no knowledge players were going to the league behind his back. To see these guys, running around and lobbying as individuals about a salary cap, when it's not what we believe in, it looks bad."

The NHL's ultimatum Tuesday was $2.5 million higher than what it offered the night before, when the sides made dramatic progress during a secret meeting in Niagara Falls.

The league, for the first time in collective bargaining, dropped its demand that a salary cap be linked to revenues. The NHLPA rejected the $40 million offer but responded with a landmark concession of its own.

The union shocked membership by making its first salary-cap proposal, offering a $52 million ceiling in addition to payroll taxes with thresholds at $40 million (25 percent), $44 million (50 percent), $48 million (75 percent) and $52 million (150 percent).

"The two sides have moved off of the things they said they'd never move away from," said former Buffalo Sabres defenseman James Patrick, a free agent. "Now it would be a shame if we didn't bridge the gap and come to a compromise. I think it could be done."

All of the recent plans include the NHLPA's Dec. 9 offer to roll back salaries 24 percent. Tuesday's events created a whirlwind of emotions among the rank-and-file.

"I would want an explanation as to why it has happened the way it did," Sabres center Adam Mair said. "The positive is that this brings us closer to a deal. The negative aspect is I don't know how much closer (the NHL) came to us. We've reached out a lot further than they have."

There was suspicion the 11th-hour negotiations were little more than legal maneuverings in the event the NHL declares an impasse in negotiations, the first step toward using replacement players.

The NHLPA would protest to the National Labor Relations Board, claiming the union was the one that compromised on the biggest hurdle and agreed to consider a salary cap.

Some players seemed energized by the union's salary-cap development. Columbusunion representative Todd Marchant rebutted the concept the NHLPA merely was looking to cut its losses by agreeing to a salary cap, but he claimed the move was necessary.

"You gotta look at the whole situation, and if an agreement isn't reached now the season will be canceled," Marchant said. "Then you can pretty much fast forward to next January and we'll be sitting here and probably talking about the same things. It's the gamble you take."

Many players were upset the union flip-flopped on its core belief.

"I'm disappointed in the fact that for years we were told to prepare for a lengthy battle, that under no circumstances were we going to agree to a salary cap," Peca said. "We prepared financially, emotionally, every which way for that very fight. Just as the 24 percent rollback was confusing to the players, we were even more confused when we heard a salary cap had been offered because that's even more of critical change."

While stunned the union is actually entertaining the notion of a salary cap, Marchant said he would trust the NHLPA's executive committee to bring the best possible offer to a membership vote.

"I have full faith that they will offer the right deal at the right time," Marchant said. "When they feel that's the best deal we'll be able to sign, then that's the best deal."

Said Peca: "It still needs to go to a vote. Maybe it doesn't go through. Whatever deal they consummate, it won't be unanimous."


e-mail: tgraham@buffnews.com

https://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050216/1046368.asp

[Nickdfresh]

Bettman Announces SEASON is CANCELLED!

http://www.nhl.com/