WWE Thread

**Big Troubles** · 03-24-2005, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by monkeythe

My point in all this is that HHH is just like Flair. The fact that Flair is worshipped while HHH is hated for doing the same things is very hypocritical.

well I think Flair will always be remembered because he reached that stature first. But yeah HHH is getting the wrong kind of heat right now. He needs a vacation or better yet, a vacation of say 6 months, and when he returns he's a face on Smackdown!. That's all it is right now. he's over kill.

**RogueHorseman** · 03-24-2005, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by monkeythe
HHH is doing exactly what Flair did 15 years ago. HHH always is vulnerable to being beaten & when he loses it he regains it quickly.
Who did Flair ever put over in his glory decade? Everyone he beat lost it back really quickly. How long were the title reigns of Race, Dusty, Von Erich, Ron Garvin, Steamboat & Sting? Everyone he lost the belt to, he regained it back from in a few months mostly in clean finishes even though he was the bad guy.

He beat everyone into the ground to the point that when he left WCW as champ there was no one able to replace him at the top. And to make it worse, he took the title with him not caring how it affected the guys whose careers he shit all over. He couldn't even give anyone the rub on the way out the door.

I guess HHH is really following Flair's footsteps.

The difference is that Flair was legit over and put asses in seats like no one else at the time. The NWA promoters, and later Crockett, kept him on top for good reason -- HE MEANT MONEY.

Triple HGH? Please... Were he not hitched to Steph, his fifteen minutes would have been over long ago. He is not a legitimate draw, can't carry Flairs jock strap in comparison as a worker, and is about as compelling as Greg Gagne on the stick.

Politically smart, I guess so... but, he'd better hope and pray he never gets on her bad side.

**RogueHorseman** · 03-24-2005, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by Full Bug
Thats not how it went down, Flair had paid a 15,000 deposit type thing on the belt for reasons I cant recall this very moment, and WCW wouldnt give him back the money, so when they didnt he held onto the belt, wouldnt you?

The deposit went back to the NWA days where the champion had to put up that cash as a sort of in-house insurance policy to insure they didn't start working their own programs, so-to-speak... Flair additionally had claim on the belt itself due to Crockett signing physical ownership of it over to him to make good on due payoffs a year or two before they sold to TBS.

The "distorted" bit WWF did (to good effect, making the best of a bad situation) stemed from TBS winning a court case where they were found to own the belt on Trademark and Intelectual Property grounds. They paid Ric the money due, with interest, and he FedEx'd big gold back to CNN Center. Flair had left WCW over a contract renewal dispute with Jim Herd, who wanted him to take a huge pay cut and "bow out" with a stupid gimmick makeover (as if) as he put over the whole crew. Herd was long gone when Flair returned to Atlanta less than two years later...

**RogueHorseman** · 03-24-2005, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by Big Troubles
It was a $25 000 bond on the belt. An insurance pay off for the NWA championship commitee. When Flair was offered a very low contract renewel with WCW/NWA, he talked to Vince and felt the WWF was a better choice. So Flair called, I believe it was, Jim Herd, and told him he was walking away, and would like to exchange the belt for the money deposit. Herd said fuck you, and Flair showed up with the belt on WWF tv. That was a great moment for me, cause I was a HUGE WWF fan at the time, but always loved Flair, Sting and Luger. So to see Flair on WWF tv, WITH the NWA title! Damn that was cool ass shit.

Sorry BT... didn't see your post!

It was a sureal moment seeing Bobby The Brain holding up Big Gold, wasn't it...

"Monsoon, comparing the man who holds this belt -- the Real Worlds Heavyweight Champion -- to that idiot Hulk Hogan is like comparing ice cream to horse manure."

**RogueHorseman** · 03-24-2005, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by monkeythe
He refused to lose the belt to Lugar at the GAB or Windham before the event...

Flair had every intention of putting Windham, deservedly so, over as NWA World Champion.

Both will tell you themselves, that was the gameplan, before Herd botched everything anyway...

You are right about the title being hugely devalued until "Vader Time" kicked in.

**Big Troubles** · 03-24-2005, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by RogueHorseman
Sorry BT... didn't see your post!

It was a sureal moment seeing Bobby The Brain holding up Big Gold, wasn't it...

"Monsoon, comparing the man who holds this belt -- the Real Worlds Heavyweight Champion -- to that idiot Hulk Hogan is like comparing ice cream to horse manure."

:D I hated Monsoon's remark about Flirs belt. I think it was during the Survivor Series, when Ric held the "distorted" (WWF TAG Title) belt in the air, Bobby said that's your real worlds champion, right there- and Monsoon said "we don't know where he got that belt, and he's not recognised as a champion". Fucking ouch! lol But I guess that was, the WWF never acknowledging any other wrestling co. at the time so..that was their "way out", if asked I guess?

**Big Troubles** · 03-24-2005, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by RogueHorseman
Flair had every intention of putting Windham, deservedly so, over as NWA World Champion.

Both will tell you themselves, that was the gameplan, before Herd botched everything anyway...

You are right about the title being hugely devalued until "Vader Time" kicked in.

Vader in WCW kicked ass. Vader in WWF kissed ass. LOL There was a good brawl between Stan Hansen and Vader at one of the Clash's that was fucking great.

As a side note, I never really liked Windham as the world champ. He's a good chaser, as a heel, but not a good world's champ. IMO.

**rustoffa** · 03-24-2005, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by monkeythe

Who did Flair ever put over in his glory decade?
He beat everyone into the ground to the point that when he left WCW as champ there was no one able to replace him at the top.

A really grate one was Shane Douglas.

Douglas left WCW and waged complete war against Flair publicly for holding him down. The thing got pretty ugly.

It culminated in Douglas throwing the NWA heavyweight belt in a trash can and ECW being born.

Flair was out of his mind over that belt being disrespected like that.

One good result of Flair's maniacal ego?

EC F'N W!!!!

**RogueHorseman** · 03-24-2005, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by Big Troubles
Vader in WCW kicked ass. Vader in WWF kissed ass. LOL There was a good brawl between Stan Hansen and Vader at one of the Clash's that was fucking great.

As a side note, I never really liked Windham as the world champ. He's a good chaser, as a heel, but not a good world's champ. IMO.

I dug Vader big time also. Leon was a bad ass, and worked stiff as hell back then. When he was later forced to put over the likes of Mark Henry is when I totally stopped caring anything much about the WWF...

I agree about Windham, too. He was best chasing, but was cut out of the classic mold of the great working NWA champs... he was like a cross of Brisco and Flair with Steamboat's smoothness tossed in for good measure... Windham could flat out GO in his day. Barry would have been a fantastic heel champ, guaranteed. One hell of a nice guy, to this day, as well. Smart as a whip, which some find suprising for some reason...

**Big Troubles** · 03-24-2005, 11:15 PM

I have not seen him since his last run. Is he in any kind of ring shape? Something Vince or even TNA would look at?

**Full Bug** · 03-25-2005, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by RogueHorseman

You are right about the title being hugely devalued until "Vader Time" kicked in.

What, you didnt think Ron Simmons was a great world champ? :D

**rustoffa** · 03-25-2005, 12:12 AM

Originally posted by Big Troubles
I have not seen him since his last run. Is he in any kind of ring shape? Something Vince or even TNA would look at?

He was heavily involved in Dusty's TCW promotion here a few years back....he could still work a match.

:D

**Full Bug** · 03-25-2005, 12:14 AM

I hate Dusty Rhoads.....

**Mr Badguy** · 03-28-2005, 05:55 AM

I still can`t believe that anyone wouldn`t give Flair his due as the best heel, if not ever, then in the last twenty five years.

Alright, let`s all name the heels that draw good heat, past and present.

Are there any better than Flair?

Who really put bums on seats?

Off the top of my head:

Flair/The four horsemen

Andre the Giant

"Mr Perfect" Curt Henning

"Million dollar man" Ted DiBiase

The Undertaker

Big Van Vader

Kurt Angle

Those are just some I remember from watching, that`s why I don`t have any real old timers.

**Big Troubles** · 03-28-2005, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by rustoffa
He was heavily involved in Dusty's TCW promotion here a few years back....he could still work a match.

:D

Hey that's neat. Something I did not know! Wonder if Barry is scheduled for a Hall of Fame in the next few years.

Speaking of... Any names to drop for next years Hall Of Fame?

I'll start off with

Randy & Lanny Poffo
Dusty Rhodes
Jake Roberts
King Kong Bundy
Steve Lombardi
Rick Martel
Ricky Steamboat
Ted Dibiase
Hacksaw Jim Duggan
Honky Tonk Man

any more?

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