Heaven and Hell

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
Boy what a weekend....

Extended set? What extended set....looks to me like it was the same set as the Ottawa show....


That said, the concert itself was great. I have no complaints about it other than the lack of an extended set.

Tony Iommi is STILL a motherfucker of a guitarist....and the solo on "Lonely Is The Word" is one of my faves he has ever done.

They only had a single merch table there, and the shirts sold out REAL fast (I went out during the 4th song, and they were out of everything larger than a size medium or large). Fortunately you can buy tour shirts online at heaveanandhelllive.com, but they had a special jersey-type shirt for the New York gig that had SOLD OUT printed in red across a picture of the Statue Of Liberty, who, instead of holding a torch, was giving the horns sign, and she had bat wings.....it was cool...too bad it sold out.

As I had only been to NY once before, I wore myself out just by walking.

Bufday no. 47 was Sunday, the day after I got back, and damn...I was feeling it. I am not used to walking 10-15 miles per day. I walked about 5 on Thursday, 15-20 on Friday, and another 10 on Saturday, before flying home Saturday night.

It seems there is already bootleg video footage on MySpace, and there is a bootleg DVD listed somewhere....but of course due to the arrival in the fall of the REAL DVD, I have no use for a bootleg.

I was in about the 23rd row....and the sound was impeccable...with a neat light show and cool effects.

I had much fun.

Worked on Monday, then came down with a serious head cold/sinus infection that knocked me out for 2 days....which is why I am only just now posting.

They are very much worth seeing, just as they were back in the day.

I give them ten thumbs up.

Happy birthday - and a great review!

Tony is the fucking BOSS - none other compares!!

I think Ronnie was hinting around that Union problems in NYC might have hindered the extended setlist...he didn't say so in so many words, but he did say that union rules shut them down in a lot of angles, from soundcheck on up, so...don't know for sure, but that might have had some impact on things...?

[binnie]

As long as it's "union" problems and not "reunion" problems, it's all good!

[bueno bob]

Amen to that...

Even if so, Ronnie's a professional - more so than just about any other mother fucker in the industry. Him and Tony and Geezer could be shooting at each other backstage every fucking night, and Ronnie'd finish the tour up.

Trust me on that.

[binnie]

It's good to know.

They tour here in November with Lamb of God and Iced Earth supporting.

I much prefer the supporting bands on the American dates (huge Megadeth fan, and Down are so good it makes other bands sic) but really its all about Heaven & Hell isn't it?

Lamb of God's last record was an absolute killer, but the cookie-monster vocals limit their music; and to these ears Iced Earth is just a poor man's Judas Priest.

Still stoked about going though.

[bueno bob]

Yeah...I won't argue with you on Iced Earth any...Iced Earth should just title their best of collection "Day Late and a Dollar Short", because it pretty much sums up their career in a nutshell.

Now, had their first album come out in 1982 or so...that'd be something else entirely...

[Mr. Vengeance]

I have to say, I think I got a much better deal with Down and Megadeth opening than the European gang are. Hell, I don't THINK it, I fucking KNOW it.....

[Hardrock69]

Thanks for the Bufday wishes peeps....

Picked up The Dio Years today....it rocks!

[Loons The Great]

Do y'all consider Dio to be the Sammy Hagar of Black Sabbath? And Ozzy the David Lee Roth of Black Sabbath...Dio and Hagar are both short lil' troll-lookin' mofos...only Sabbath I'm interested in is with Ozzy at the wheel...never been a Dio fan really, although Tenacious D convinced me to check out a few Dio tunes...yez yez...

[bueno bob]

Not in a million years would I put Sammy and Ronnie in the same catagory. There's a tremendous world of difference between the two of them...

First off, Ozzy, while being a great vocalist in his own regards, never really had much to add to the mix musically with classic Sabbath. Granted, he came up with a few words back and forth, melodies and such, but the bulk of the lyricism was on the shoulders of Geezer Butler (and by bulk, I mean probably about 95%). The music was all about Tony and Geezer - Bill more or less threw in his own drumwork...while nobody can deny Ozzy was the face of Black Sabbath, musically and in whole he didn't have a lot to offer and was really carried by Tony and Geezer (which is a pattern he followed throughout his solo career with Randy Rhoads, Jake E Lee and especially Bob Daisley).

David, of course, had a ton to do with the Van Halen's music, the lyrics, the album packaging, cover art, video layouts, promotion, on and on and on...

Same couldn't be said for Ronnie. By tradition, Geezer added some of the lyrics for Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules, but predominantly Sabbath finally had a lyricist in Ronnie whereas they didn't with Ozzy. Being very competant with bass and keyboards, they also had a musician in Ronnie who understood how to formulate the music and could take an active hand in the creative side of it.

The most important difference, however, is in this - Ronnie James was always (and still is) totally respectful to the Ozzy era Black Sabbath. Now, when he did Ozzy's stuff live, he put his own signature on it (singing it much more 'dark' and 'evil', if you will), but never once did he piss on Ozzy the man or Ozzy's catalog. Prior to Rainbow, his band Elf often times covered Sabbath material when they played live, so he'd already had a long respect for them. Of course, Tony was the guy in charge during the early 80's run with Ronnie, so Tony decided what the set list was going to look like - predominantly heavy with Heaven and Hell & Mob Rules material, sure, but Ronnie never had any problem whatsoever doing Ozzy's material for the fans - N.I.B., Black Sabbath, War Pigs, Paranoid, Iron Man, and Children of the Grave were all played regularly (and I believe a few oddball things at odd times).

In speaking about the early 80's setlist, since Tony had basically total control over Sabbath at that time, I guess he figured it was more important to showcase the newer material and he did spend a lot of concert time doing guitar solos and such (which really isn't a bad thing if you're a Tony Iommi fan, anyway).

In contrast, we all know how Sammy Hagar felt about covering DLR Van Halen material - and if he could have gotten away with never touching any of it, God knows he would have.

The battle in the press was all, really, one sided - Ozzy talked a LOT of shit about Sabbath in general back in the early 80's (and even more after the fact), but often times threw a lot of barbs Ronnie's way as well. I've seen interviews from back in the day trying to goad Ronnie into throwing some bad words Ozzy's direction, but never once have I seen Ronnie talk any shit about Ozzy or his time in Sabbath. About the closest I've seen is Ronnie saying that, in his opinion, Tony and Geezer's true capacity as musicians was held back a little by Ozzy. I don't know if I can agree or disagree with that, but the music in Sabbath did take on a significantly different perspective. Some argue it was Black Rainbow, so to speak, but I just heard it as a natural evolution - even if Ozzy had managed to stay on past 1979, I really think albums like Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules would have been the eventual destination - they probably would have gotten there a year or two later, because Tony wanted to head in that sort of direction, which is why he ended up talking to Ronnie back in '79 in the first place.

The (mis)direction Van Halen took in 1986 with Hagar at the helm was so sudden, it was horrific...I guess it could be argued that the radio friendly era started with Jump, but to think it'd get as bad as Love Walks In and Feels So Good...Sabbath under Ronnie didn't derail the whole boat like Van Halen did under Hagar, so...

When it comes to vocal talent, Ronnie's got miles on Ozzy, but Ozzy's got miles on Ronnie when it comes to putting on an entertaining, memorable show - Ozzy's the frontman specialist between the two of them, zero doubt about that.

Having met the both of them, I can say without a doubt that Ronnie's the more immediately friendly with the fans - I met Ronnie about an hour before he had to be on stage and he sat through a photo session, signing all me and my buddy's shit, laughing, having a good time, answering our questions - I felt bad, I had to apologize to the guy for holding him up and he said "Hey - without you two guys, I wouldn't even be here, so I owe YOU".

That, to me, is fucking CLASS and I so don't expect that when dealing with professional musicians on his level...

Ozzy? Just walked in and demanded a drink. Didn't seem to give much of a shit about anything otherwise and he just...I wouldn't say it was a letdown or anything, but the way Ronnie actually took the time to actually acknowledge us made all the difference to me, I guess.

In my own personal opinion, I hold the lead singer change from Ozzy to Ronnie as the most succesful in the industry after Iron Maiden's switch from Paul Dianno to Bruce Dickinson and Judas Priests change from Al Atkins to Rob Halford. Ronnie's run in Sabbath, from my perspective, was light years away from the Van Hagar disaster of the late '80's.

It was all about the music and the respect. The music was great and Ronnie showed due respect for the Sabbath history with Ozzy and to Ozzy himself - with Van Hagar, the music was not great and Sammy gave NO repsect to David or his history with the band at all.

And that, dear sir, is the difference. Forgive my rambling.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Originally posted by bueno bob
Not in a million years would I put Sammy and Ronnie in the same catagory. There's a tremendous world of difference between the two of them...

First off, Ozzy, while being a great vocalist in his own regards, never really had much to add to the mix musically with classic Sabbath. Granted, he came up with a few words back and forth, melodies and such, but the bulk of the lyricism was on the shoulders of Geezer Butler (and by bulk, I mean probably about 95%). The music was all about Tony and Geezer - Bill more or less threw in his own drumwork...while nobody can deny Ozzy was the face of Black Sabbath, musically and in whole he didn't have a lot to offer and was really carried by Tony and Geezer (which is a pattern he followed throughout his solo career with Randy Rhoads, Jake E Lee and especially Bob Daisley).

David, of course, had a ton to do with the Van Halen's music, the lyrics, the album packaging, cover art, video layouts, promotion, on and on and on...

Same couldn't be said for Ronnie. By tradition, Geezer added some of the lyrics for Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules, but predominantly Sabbath finally had a lyricist in Ronnie whereas they didn't with Ozzy. Being very competant with bass and keyboards, they also had a musician in Ronnie who understood how to formulate the music and could take an active hand in the creative side of it.

The most important difference, however, is in this - Ronnie James was always (and still is) totally respectful to the Ozzy era Black Sabbath. Now, when he did Ozzy's stuff live, he put his own signature on it (singing it much more 'dark' and 'evil', if you will), but never once did he piss on Ozzy the man or Ozzy's catalog. Prior to Rainbow, his band Elf often times covered Sabbath material when they played live, so he'd already had a long respect for them. Of course, Tony was the guy in charge during the early 80's run with Ronnie, so Tony decided what the set list was going to look like - predominantly heavy with Heaven and Hell & Mob Rules material, sure, but Ronnie never had any problem whatsoever doing Ozzy's material for the fans - N.I.B., Black Sabbath, War Pigs, Paranoid, Iron Man, and Children of the Grave were all played regularly (and I believe a few oddball things at odd times).

In speaking about the early 80's setlist, since Tony had basically total control over Sabbath at that time, I guess he figured it was more important to showcase the newer material and he did spend a lot of concert time doing guitar solos and such (which really isn't a bad thing if you're a Tony Iommi fan, anyway).

In contrast, we all know how Sammy Hagar felt about covering DLR Van Halen material - and if he could have gotten away with never touching any of it, God knows he would have.

The battle in the press was all, really, one sided - Ozzy talked a LOT of shit about Sabbath in general back in the early 80's (and even more after the fact), but often times threw a lot of barbs Ronnie's way as well. I've seen interviews from back in the day trying to goad Ronnie into throwing some bad words Ozzy's direction, but never once have I seen Ronnie talk any shit about Ozzy or his time in Sabbath. About the closest I've seen is Ronnie saying that, in his opinion, Tony and Geezer's true capacity as musicians was held back a little by Ozzy. I don't know if I can agree or disagree with that, but the music in Sabbath did take on a significantly different perspective. Some argue it was Black Rainbow, so to speak, but I just heard it as a natural evolution - even if Ozzy had managed to stay on past 1979, I really think albums like Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules would have been the eventual destination - they probably would have gotten there a year or two later, because Tony wanted to head in that sort of direction, which is why he ended up talking to Ronnie back in '79 in the first place.

The (mis)direction Van Halen took in 1986 with Hagar at the helm was so sudden, it was horrific...I guess it could be argued that the radio friendly era started with Jump, but to think it'd get as bad as Love Walks In and Feels So Good...Sabbath under Ronnie didn't derail the whole boat like Van Halen did under Hagar, so...

When it comes to vocal talent, Ronnie's got miles on Ozzy, but Ozzy's got miles on Ronnie when it comes to putting on an entertaining, memorable show - Ozzy's the frontman specialist between the two of them, zero doubt about that.

Having met the both of them, I can say without a doubt that Ronnie's the more immediately friendly with the fans - I met Ronnie about an hour before he had to be on stage and he sat through a photo session, signing all me and my buddy's shit, laughing, having a good time, answering our questions - I felt bad, I had to apologize to the guy for holding him up and he said "Hey - without you two guys, I wouldn't even be here, so I owe YOU".

That, to me, is fucking CLASS and I so don't expect that when dealing with professional musicians on his level...

Ozzy? Just walked in and demanded a drink. Didn't seem to give much of a shit about anything otherwise and he just...I wouldn't say it was a letdown or anything, but the way Ronnie actually took the time to actually acknowledge us made all the difference to me, I guess.

In my own personal opinion, I hold the lead singer change from Ozzy to Ronnie as the most succesful in the industry after Iron Maiden's switch from Paul Dianno to Bruce Dickinson and Judas Priests change from Al Atkins to Rob Halford. Ronnie's run in Sabbath, from my perspective, was light years away from the Van Hagar disaster of the late '80's.

It was all about the music and the respect. The music was great and Ronnie showed due respect for the Sabbath history with Ozzy and to Ozzy himself - with Van Hagar, the music was not great and Sammy gave NO repsect to David or his history with the band at all.

And that, dear sir, is the difference. Forgive my rambling.

And here endeth the lesson.

In all seriousness, Bob is right. Dio never pissed on Sabbath's legacy when he joined (unlike Hagar), Dio didn't ruin the band's future (unlike Hagar) and Dio is a good musician/singer/lyricst (unlike Hagar).

[ThrillsNSpills]

Originally posted by bueno bob
- I felt bad, I had to apologize to the guy for holding him up and he said "Hey - without you two guys, I wouldn't even be here, so I owe YOU".

That, to me, is fucking CLASS Forgive my rambling.

No, forgive me. If you didn't type all that I wouldnt have read it so I owe you.

good stuff

[BruinJer]

I do remember a late night concert show in the early 80's (which came on after Saturday Night Live) Dio was the featured band... they did 3 or 4 songs live... during the breaks there was an interview with Sharon & Ozzy, Sharon UNLOADED on Ronnie. Calling him "Little Ronnie".... this was the first time I had seen Sharon be like that. She showed very little class that night... I forgot the name of the show and I'm sure it would be impossible to find the video...

[Mr. Vengeance]

During the Ottawa show, Ronnie made a comment about the new album, and how "it features this incarnation of the band's material, however you want to view it today" and suggested that this lineup would do more than just this tour. He didn't make any effort to call themselves Sabbath, or make a comment about Ozzy. I thought he was handling things well.

[Loons The Great]

Damn...

[Hardrock69]

Photos from Eddie Trunk's Page of the gig:








Grate pic of Tony: