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It's probably whomever is Ozzy's drummer
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WTF!!!!
BILL WARD Removed From Photos On BLACK SABBATH's Official Web Site - May 18, 2012
Drummer Bill Ward has been removed from all the photos on the homepage and gallery section of BLACK SABBATH's official web site after he announced that he was unable to to reach a contractual agreement with his bandmates about participating in their upcoming reunion shows.
In response to the move, Tony Conley of the Facebook page 1,000,000 Black Sabbath Fans Say Yes To Bill Ward wrote, "That is simply one of the most dastardly, chickenshit things I have ever seen done in my 40-some years of watching rock and roll. Definitely the maneuver with the least class, and disrespect.
"Bill's statements have been filled with love and respect. BLACK SABBATH's responses have been shallow and cold.
"Two sides to every story? Then tell yours, BLACK SABBATH, and stop hiding. If Bill can't hack it — say so. If he wants more than his share financially — say so. If there is a reasonable explanation for this shameful display, please help us to understand what it is. Currently, you look shameful and sad. That is not how we wish to feel about you.
"Your fans deserve better, Bill deserves better, and you deserve better."
BLACK SABBATH will play a hometown concert in Birmingham, England tomorrow night (Saturday, May 19) as a warm-up show for the band's appearance at the Download festival at Donington next month. SABBATH has hired a replacement drummer for the upcoming gigs but has yet to reveal the musician's identiry.
A furor erupted online in 2007 after photos of Michael Anthony at the official VAN HALEN web site were either removed or replaced by an image of guitarist Eddie Van Halen's son Wolfgang, who played bass on the group's recent album and tour. The photos were restored less than two days later.Comment
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I, for one, won't miss Bill Ward at all.
Let's actually do the math here:
1980 - Bill Ward quits right into the Heaven and Hell tour; leaves Tony, Geezer and Ronnie in a lurch.
1984 - Bill returns to record Born Again - quits immediately afterwards, leaving Ian, Tony and Geezer in a lurch.
1985 - Bill returns, hangs around to fart off in the studio, quits and leaves Tony in a lurch, as David Donato and Geezer were out too.
1992/1993 - Bill returns, quits after Ozzy decides he doesn't want to do the Black Sabbath reunion.
1994 - Bill returns, tours briefly, and quits, leaving Tony and Geezer in a lurch.
1997 - The band wants Bill, but he can't tour due to the fact that his skills are in the toilet.
2004(ish) - Ozzy doesn't want to do a new Sabbath album - Bill quits.
2007 - Bill agrees to do Heaven & Hell; several weeks later, he quits.
2012 - Bill agrees to so the Black Sabbath reunion, appears in public - and quits over money, leaving Ozzy, Tony and Geezer in a lurch.
So...let me get this straight - you expect me to have some sympathy for this fuckin' guy?
Yeah, NOPE.
Since 1980, Bill has quit Black Sabbath NINE FUCKING TIMES.
That's right, folks. Nine times. Many of which had the effect of leaving Black Sabbath (and by Black Sabbath, let's be honest, I mean TONY IOMMI) in a mad dash to have to find an emergency replacement. And EVERY SINGLE TIME, he's been welcomed back with open arms and no hard feelings. EVERY TIME.
The bottom line is this - Bill does NOT deserve "better". Frankly, with his track pattern, he deserves whatever he gets. If the "money wasn't right" for Bill (and even if he was looking at 10%, we're still talking at least $10-14,000,000.00 at a SAFE estimate), and if contracts weren't signed, maybe Bill should have had the fucking decency to say "Hey guys, let's not run the risk of not getting this right and pissing the fans off, let's take our time, straighten shit out, make sure all our ducks are in a row and THEN go from there."
Sabbath would have honored that - they would have had to. But no, Bill was all fired up and ready to go, so he showed up in public, said he was involved, and then, a short time later, pulls out bitching about money and people have the fucking AUDACITY to DEFEND him?
Oh no no no...fuck all the things about that. Every single bit. Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, Bill's fucking LUCKY he was even ASKED. For all four of the original lineup, he is WITHOUT ANY SINGLE DOUBT the biggest liability and the weakest link. If he thinks he's worth that much, well, I'm sorry, but he's not. This whole "25% for everybody!" idea is pure, unadulterated bullshit and so far outside of reality it's scary. Bill's spent more time out of Sabbath since 1980 then in by a VERY large margin. He's done virtually NOTHING to keep the name Black Sabbath alive over the years, unlike Ozzy, Geezer and especially TONY.
Frankly, he's not entitled to 25% and 10% is being MORE than generous. He's lucky he was offered more than just a flat rate, to be quite honest.
Seeing all these rants about how it's "Not Sabbath without Bill!" is fucking irritating as all hell, especially when you stop to think for a moment and realize that it's actually BILL who's responsible for all this shit.
He did the appearance on 11/11/11. If he wasn't right, then he shouldn't have shown. He did, and then he backed out, AGAIN leaving Sabbath in a lurch - and using public forums for a blatant case of passive-aggressive blackmail.
I feel really bad for Ozzy, Tony and Geezer here...even a CASUAL glance at Bill Ward's history with Black Sabbath and it becomes readily apparent who the villain is, and Bill's essentially being a vindictive bitch and making them look like assholes by using public forums to rant and whine (very politely) about how he's (cough) "being screwed out of money" and how "sorry" he is for the fans.
Trust me, Bill Ward doesn't give a FUCK about the fans. He gives a fuck about his wallet and that's about the end of it and that much is PLAINLY evident to me. If he gave a shit at all, he'd have his ass on stage, thankful to be there, and happy to play for the fans KNOWING full well that they want to see it more than anything else.
Worse yet, I feel bad for Sharon. FUCKING WEIRD AS THAT IS TO SAY, I feel bad for Sharon because it's very easy for Sabbath fans to point the finger at her as the problem when in truth Tony owns everything related to Black Sabbath...and, for once, she's getting shit she actually DOESN'T deserve.
I could give a shit less if Bill ever comes back. I guess no money must be better for him then the so-called "insult", hunh? And fuck the fans then, too. Well, he's welcome to it. And I'm glad that Sabbath removed all photos of him from the website, it's the LEAST that piece of shit deserves.
That said, as soon as he gets his shit together, well...I'm sure they'll welcome him back into the fold with open arms.
More's the fucking pity.Twistin' by the pool.Comment
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You know what, bueno? That's all a lot of relevant info I was aware of but hadn't considered...
With each instance of Ward leaving, as you laid them out in your post, I had to agree and remember that Ward does have a frequent history of quitting the group.
When thought of in that context, perhaps this latest instance isn't so surprising.Scramby eggs and bacon.Comment
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That's all I'm saying.
Bottom line...Bill Ward is, put simply, a liability and he always kinda has been.
Myself, you know, I waded through 32 years of Sabbath lineup changes and a new drummer is a new drummer, it's NOTHING NEW...Tony could plug in with me, you and my kid and it's STILL Black Sabbath.
I think the sympathy vote for Bill is quaint, but there's no sense "boycotting" Sabbath over his absence, since he's been out about 95% of the time since 1980 anyway...Bill's a great cat, and yeah, I'd LOVE to see him there, but I'm not going to pee myself and cry that he's not because this is what he does.
That's it.Last edited by bueno bob; 05-18-2012, 11:20 PM.Twistin' by the pool.Comment
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Shit, BOB...there's a lot there I didn't think about. I guess reading your post almost made me do a complete 180. There's a bunch of great Sabbath without Bill throughout history. And I never stopped to realize how many times that pinhead has quit Sabbath. Nine fucking times? And you're right...why did he do the press conference?
I can't say I exactly missed Bill during the amazing run HEAVEN & HELL (I still call 'em BLACK SABBATH) had in the few years before Dio's death. That was an amazing run. Great concerts, two amazing DVD/Blu-Ray releases, three solid new songs for a Greatest Hits album...and a very good reunion album. In fact, aside from the fact that I miss Dio a lot anyway, I would rather that line-up were still going than a reunion of the Ozzy line-up. And I didn't miss Bill then. Vinny is a solid drummer.
Wife and I won't be going to Lollapalooza anyway, even if it's 15 minutes away from us. Fact is, with a new baby, it's just too tough a proposition right now. But I'd probably figure it out if they were playing an arena or somewhere more enjoyable. I had a good time in second row for the Soundgarden reunion in 2010 (one of my favorite bands ever, and a great show)...but I don't want to brave that festival shit again.
All aside...I wish Cozy Powell were still alive. He is, in my opinion, the second-greatest rock drummer in history...behind Bonham.Roth Army Militia
Originally posted by WARF
Rikk - The new school of the Roth Army... this dude leads the pack... three words... The Sheep Pen... this dude opened alot of doors for people during this new era... he's the best of the new school.Comment
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?????
I was unaware he was even considered for the Heaven & Hell band.
Why the fuck would he be involved anyway?
I mean, sure, he quit soon after the H & H tour began in 1980....by the time I saw them on that tour there was this muscular young guy who was beating the living shit out of his drums.....but then, Mob Rules had Vinnie Appice as well.
THEN.....Cozy Powell was supposedly going to do the Dehumanizer tour....but had to back out due to a car crash if I recall right....so what to they do? Bring in Vinnie Appice.....
Actually this fucking pisses me off....the only time Vinnie Appice was considered FIRST for an album and tour was the fucking Mob Rules tour!
He was a replacement in 1980, second choice in 1992, and again in 2007. And, strangely enough, HE is known to the public as THE drummer for the classic MK II Black Sabbath lineup with Ronnie.
So, for whatever reason, the cards always fell into place, and when Ronnie was playing with Tony & Geezer, Vinnie was there as well!
Thanks for the heads up, Bob. Changed my opinion entirely.Comment
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I remember hearing that Bill was supposed to have been the drummer when it was first reported that Dio was working with them again in 2004/05, on what was originally supposed to be just 3 songs for a greatest hits compilation (or actually a box set that got scaled back to a greatest hits compilation) I thought it was weird at the time, because after Bill bailed out of the 1980 tour and then reappeared to record Born Again, I just assumed he and Dio didn't get along. So when Vinny Appice became their drummer once again when they changed their name to Heaven & Hell, it seemed to make sense.
What doesn't make sense is how Bill was saying for years that there should not be a band called Black Sabbath unless it's the original 4 members, and now he's the one who is preventing that from happening on what will more than likely be their last album (let's face it, even if Tony beats cancer - and goddamn it, somebody has to once in a while - how much longer does Ozzy have? He's looked and sounded half dead for years)
Yeah, Sharon's a miserable back stabbing cunt. We all know that. But Bill should hire his own agent/manager/lawyer/hit man and negotiate this shit back to reality. I really want to see Sabbath go out on a great note, and that ain't possible with a scab drummer.Eat Us And Smile
Cenk For America 2024!!
Justice Democrats
"If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992Comment
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Well, according to Geezer's statement, they're working with Ozzy's solo drummer Tommy Clufetos. I don't really know anything about him per se, other than what I've heard on the last few solo Ozzy albums, but...this, in my mind, isn't really all that different that what happened when Tony, Ozzy, and Geezer got back together with Mike Bordin in 1996/1997. Bill wasn't up to speed then, but of course, back then we had whatever the metal magazines told us (which was slim), we didn't have this ongoing soap opera over the internet about it.
Personally, I'm with HR69...I'd have much rather seen Vinny Appice in place of Tommy, he's easily drummer #2 in Sabbath history, but...he's also been vocal about wanting to do his own band and not be somebody elses property. At this stage, I can respect that out of him.
Bill's a really convincing guy, he's very friendly and very polite and he makes a great point about wanting to do the right thing, and in my heart of hearts, I believe he probably does. Probably. But the bottom line is that, at least for me, it's really infuriating to see such a Ozzy/Tony/Geezer/Sharon hate fest over at sites like Blabbermouth when people are just reading Bill's side of things and basing their own judgments on that, rather than taking a few minutes to stop and consider the fact that Bill's been in and out of Sabbath more times than I'd be in and out of Milla Jovovich, for Pete's sake.
Every time, Black Sabbath, Tony, or whoever it's been from minute to minute, have welcomed him back with no hard feelings. They really do love him, even with as problematic as he is. And even Geezer came out today and said that the amount of money he was asking for was just insane, to the point where they actually thought it was a joke.
Here's his statement:
"I feel sad to see the SABBATH reunion becoming a bit of a soap opera on the Internet.
"It has been a very tough year for us as a band, having announced our reunion plans, only for Tony [Iommi, guitar] to be diagnosed with lymphoma, leaving us no choice but to postpone the proposed SABBATH tour, and then for Bill [Ward, drums] to go public on his site about an unsignable contract.
"None of us knew how Tony was going to respond to his intensive chemotherapy, and radiotherapy. Ozzy [Osbourne, vocals] and myself flew to England to be with Tony, and on his 'good' days, we'd meet at his home studio and put ideas together for the upcoming album, all sitting down together, no drummer involved, just three of us quietly putting together ideas. We thought that when we had enough songs together for a full band rehearsal, we'd move back to L.A and put the whole thing together with Bill. Unfortunately, to our surprise, Bill issued a statement on his site saying he'd been offered an unsignable contract. He hadn't told any one of us he was having contractual problems, and frankly, those things are worked out between our representatives, and never between the four of us, let alone in public.
"We had the idea of keeping just one show in this year, hoping that Tony would be well enough for that show, and that things with Bill would be sorted.
"As you may expect, a one-off show at Donnington festival (Download) costs an absolute fortune to stage, involving over 50 people, transport, airfares, hotels, meals, agents, promoters, accountants, lawyers etc, so none of us, expected to make much money from it — it was a one-off SABBATH show for the fans, before we go into recording the new album. Apparently, this wasn't acceptable to Bill's representatives; they wanted an amount that was so unrealistic that it seemed to have been a joke. So we resigned ourselves to doing Download without Bill, hoping he'd change his mind and at least make a guest appearance.
"We started rehearsals a few weeks ago with Tommy Cluefetos, the drummer who will be on the 'Ozzy And Friends' tour. Brilliant drummer and good bloke. It was decided we'd better do a warm-up show, to break the ice since we haven't played together live. The O2 Academy was available in Birmingham, where we were rehearsing, so we decided on that, and to make a donation to Help For Heroes charity, since we'd be ironing out any glitches we may have. Then Bill put out a further statement saying he'd been ready to play the Birmingham show , but he was expected to have to do it 'for free.' Well, I think that's basically how you raise money from gigs for charity — you play them 'for free.'
"All I am saying is that there are two sides to everything.
"I do hope to play with Bill again some day. For whatever reason, it wasn't meant to be this time. Bill's made his decision, and I have to respect that. Hopefully this painful year will be worth the wait for the new SABBATH album and end in joy and happiness for all."
He doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
Frankly, I just hope that nobody boos the band today...Tony's dealing with a LOT, and he doesn't need that shit.
PERIOD.Twistin' by the pool.Comment
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Not a big Tommy Clufetos fan......Rob Zombie didn't seem to miss him at all.....not that I'm John Bonham, but Clufetos doesn't do much for me. I saw Ozzy and Zombie together at Mohecan Sun a few years ago.....Clufetos is ok, just not my favorite style of drummer....and Mike Bordin was so friggin slow and powerless that Zakk Wylde looked like he was going to strangle him.Comment
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Tommy played with Nugent on a tour. I thought he was great. I think he is on one of his dvds. Sabbath should call it a day !Comment
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Today's setlist as follows:
INTO THE VOID
UNDER THE SUN
SNOWBLIND
WAR PIGS
WHEELS OF CONFUSION
ELECTRIC FUNERAL
BLACK SABBATH
THE WIZARD
BEHIND THE WALL OF SLEEP
N.I.B.
FAIRIES WEAR BOOTS
LORD OF THIS WORLD
TOMORROW'S DREAM
SWEET LEAF/SYMPTOM OF THE UNIVERSE/DRUM SOLO/IRON MAN (MEDLEY)
DIRTY WOMEN
CHILDREN OF THE GRAVE
SABBATH BLOODY SABBATH/PARANOID (MEDLEY)
Not too shabby!Twistin' by the pool.Comment
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Drum solo? The scab gets a solo right away? Or do they just not know how to start Iron Man anymore without one?
Fuck, after reading Geezer's latest statement, the whole thing seems like a collossal miscommunication between suits and not even so much the band members themselves. Reminiscent of what Dave said about the second Van Halen reunion attempt in 2000 "Everything was great until the lawyers got involved".
Maybe things would have progressed better if Ozzy, Tony, Geezer, and Bill had actually met in one room, by themselves. No lawyers, no managers, and for the love of Satan, NO SHARON!!!
Eat Us And Smile
Cenk For America 2024!!
Justice Democrats
"If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992Comment
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One imagines at this point that Sharon's got Blasko waiting in the wings should Geezer Butler speak out of turn, too...
Originally posted by conmee
If anyone even thinks about deleting the Muff Thread they are banned.... no questions asked.
That is all.
Icon.Originally posted by GO-SPURS-GO
I've seen prominent hypocrite liberal on this site Jhale667
Originally posted by Isaac R.
Then it's really true??
The Muff Thread is really just GONE ???
OMFG...who in their right mind...???
Originally posted by eddie78
I was wrong about you, brother. You're good.Comment
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