Is God pro-war ??

[ELVIS]

One is, but I don't know her...

[Cathedral]

Ford, I think you tripped, buddy.
Galatians 6:2 instructs: "Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ."

Iraqi's were tortured and murdered under Saddams rule. Bush decided to bear their burdens and remove him. Now life there right now is a mess for them, but they are free, bro. You cannot put a price on freedom, but now they have a chance to make life worth living, kind of a precious time if you ask me.

Yeah, you can rise up against your government by waging all the BCE accusations you want, you have that right. But do you think that Iraqi's deserve less than you?

Jesus wasn't an American so Liberty, Freedom, and all that goes with it is not exclusive to our borders.
Jesus loved "ALL MANKIND", so what we have done in Afghanistan, and Iraq falls in line with Jesus Law. We are taking out tyranny and opression, taking on the burdens just as Jesus instructed.

Of course your political bias and unfounded hatred of Bush the man is far more important than the fact that whether you agree or not, Iraq needed to happen.
And if you even listened to Bush's Inaugural Speech, you'd know that Iraq and Afghanistan is just the beginning.

There is not one living soul on this planet that deserves to live under a brutal dictator like Saddam, and i feel for every damn one of them no matter if they hate my guts or not.

It doesn't take an educated man to see that we are truly in the end times. The Cold War was nothing compared to what lays just beyond the horizon for the world.
There will be mushroom clouds over America, I pray i am wrong, but I also know better than to be so nieve.
20 years ago it was feared, but deamed unlikely, but only because there was an understanding that human life is worth saving.
But today, we have many that would commit suicide to see America fall to its knee's.
Do we do nothing and pretend they aren't getting stronger?
Or do we react and confront the threat head on and minimize our own loses by Pre-emptive action?

On Sept. 11th, 2001 we saw what ignoring these threats will lead to, and i'd prefer to avoid as many innocent American deaths as possible.

In my mind, before 9-11 the terrorists target was our government, and a lot of us don't like the things they do.
But on 9-11 those fucks attacked us, the citizens, and waged a war with not only the government but the people who live under it and that just pisses me off.
They wanted war, they got it at the cost of 3,000 souls dead here at home.
You can continue to bitch about politics and hate the President if you want to, I'll grab a weapon and step outside and face our enemies as opposed to turning it around to find fault with our own country.

You seriously don't understand that with your arguments you do more to benefit our enemies than you do your own homeland.
How is that American?
Vietnam was the wrong war at the wrong time, and we fucked up over there....But Iraq is no Vietnam, and the pluses of having a free and democratic middle east will resonate across the globe with positive results.
That doesn't say much for what condition America will be in after it all, but then again, I'm sure it beats the alternative of sitting and waiting, hoping another 9-11 never happens again, or on a much larger scale.

You also don't seem to grasp that you can support this war effort and those dying on all sides without supporting a President you didn't want.

I don't believe that God sanctions war, But i do believe he chooses sides in all of them.
He doesn't defeat the enemy for you, but he blesses your victory and has played a part in some very key confrontations throughout history.

Iraq is no different in that respect, but I have always believed that we were weak for dealing with dictators instead of freeing the people who suffer under their rule.
Bush Sr. pulling out in '91 made me madder than hell, because we all knew they were told to uprise against Saddam and then had no support.
That is why there were no flowers thrown for the liberators this time, and that is why it is taking so long for them to see this golden opportunity for just that, a golden opportunity.
But they will, and that day is growing ever closer.

No human should suffer under another humans brutality, and if we as a Nation have the power to bring forth change in those places it is our ultimate responsibility to do so.

Liberals love to throw past dealings with these fucks in the faces of the Republicans, but even after Bush states that that will no longer be the case you still have no respect for the office he holds.

I have a hard time seeing some of the tactics as patriotic or Pro-American when even after you claim you are just expressing your right to free speech what you say and do makes life more difficult for our fighting men and women.

I have two friends that are mind fucked from being in Iraq, but it wasn't being there that fucked their mind. It was the double talk and liber bias media coverage they discovered after returning home that did it. Sorry, but y'all failed because they don't feel the support you all claim to be showing for them and i know why.
Your thoughts are never of the soldiers until you are confronted with it because you are too distracted by your hatred for one man named Bush.
I'm serious, because both of them came home feeling proud of the work they did. It is all the bullshit they see being printed and reported and then the cold shoulder of the people they wear that uniform to protect that destroyed that pride and almost replaced it with guilt by running your liberal mouths about things that can only be defined as conspiracy theories.

Funny how they seem to have the opinion that our citizens are misinformed by the media and that "if you have never set foot in Iraq since this war began you have no fucking idea what your talking about and need to shut the fuck up already" and the last part is a quote by the way.

The point is, this has already been foretold and the things that are happening are only fullfilling the prophecy and will surely come to pass.
Just be careful not to do to Bush what was done to Jesus unless you have evidence that will remove them from office and place them in prison, which to date i have yet to see materialize.

[FORD]

Geezus, I don't even know where to begin with that rant. You have definitely OD'd on the PNAC kool-aid.

[blueturk]

I'm not an atheist by any means, but I can't help but be leery of someone who says that "I trust that God speaks through me.", or claims that God told him to start this war.
Bush's practice of invoking God's name to further his agendas reminds me of Oral Roberts and his "conversation' with God regarding his efforts to open his medical school,in which God would "call him home" if enough money wasn't raised.

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by blueturk
I'm not an atheist by any means, but I can't help but be leery of someone who says that "I trust that God speaks through me.", or claims that God told him to start this war.

Let's see those quotes...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Cathedral

I have two friends that are mind fucked from being in Iraq, but it wasn't being there that fucked their mind. It was the double talk and liber bias media coverage they discovered after returning home that did it. Sorry, but y'all failed because they don't feel the support you all claim to be showing for them and i know why.

You are kidding right?! Your friends' minds are "fucked" from the supposed media's "libera bias?" You mean after the road side bombs, shootings, ambushes, and seeing children killed by both sides in the conflict, IT WAS MEDIA COVERAGE that pushed them over the edge?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Let's see those quotes...

Published on Monday, June 30, 2003 by CommonDreams.org
Did Bush Say God Told Him To Go To War?
by Ira Chernus


Did God tell George W. Bush to strike at Al-Qaeda and Iraq? God only knows. Did Bush SAY that God told him to strike? We don't know yet, for sure. But we damn well better find out. Because if George W. said it, he-and all of us-could be in for some big trouble.

Here is what we know for sure, so far. Journalist Arnon Regular wrote, in the June 26 edition of Ha'aretz (Israel's most reputable newspaper), that he has minutes of a meeting among top-level Palestinian leaders, including Prime Minister Mahmoud Abas. The minutes are apparently quite detailed, because Regular wrote a long article recounting very specific conversations. The last paragraph of the article reads:

"According to Abbas, Bush said: 'God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them.'"

Before you jump to any conclusions, remember that you are reading a translation of a translation of a translation. Mahmoud Abas does not speak English. Bush does not speak Arabic. If Bush said these words, or something like them, Abas heard them from a translator. Then Abas repeated them, as he remembered them a couple of weeks later, in Arabic. Some unknown person wrote down what he thought he heard Abas say. Then Regular, or someone at Ha'aretz, translated them back into English-or perhaps first into Hebrew and then into English.

Clearly, we don't yet know what Bush said, or why. Just as clearly, the man has some explaining to do. And whatever the truth of the matter, he has serious problems.

First, let's give him some benefit of the doubt. Maybe he never said it. The quote could be fabricated-though it is hard to see who would gain by making it up. Maybe he did say God told him to make war, but he doesn't really believe it. He might have made it up for effect, trying to score some political points in the Middle East.

Whatever benefit he got should be far outweighed by the price he has to pay here at home. This is no little incident that can slip away and be forgotten. Once Bush is called to account, his problems will really begin.

If he confirms the Ha'aretz report, those of us who say God has no place in the Oval Office had better ring the alarm, as loud and long as we can. If he truly believes that he hears the voice of God, there is no telling what God might say tomorrow. This is a man who can launch the world's biggest arsenal of weapons of mass destruction-biological, chemical, and nuclear-at any moment...
The Rest

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Let's see those quotes...

Indeed. Let's see 'em. Now. Most of them rolling around the Internet have been made up and that's a FACT.

[FORD]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Indeed. Let's see 'em. Now. Most of them rolling around the Internet have been made up and that's a FACT.

....because FAUX News told you so, right?

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Liberals love to throw past dealings with these fucks in the faces of the Republicans, but even after Bush states that that will no longer be the case you still have no respect for the office he holds.

Cathedral, why would anyone trust anything he says? HE'S A LIAR AND IT'S BEEN PROVEN!!!.

He has no credibility left and that's why no one ever should have voted for him. Yeah, "he does what he says." Bullshit. Yes he said he'd free other oppressed people in his inaugeration address. I believe that in a way, he will go to war again, but liberating people will not be his true goal.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
You are kidding right?! Your friends' minds are "fucked" from the supposed media's "libera bias?" You mean after the road side bombs, shootings, ambushes, and seeing children killed by both sides in the conflict, IT WAS MEDIA COVERAGE that pushed them over the edge?

No, it wasn't the media coverage alone.
How would you feel if you were sent to a foreign land to liberate a society from tyranny and opression, only to come home and find that you don't have the full support of your country?

The problem is that for every person that honors them, there are those who treat them like they were criminals.

The soldiers are doing their best to protect the innocent during this war, but when your enemy is the one placing them between you and them you have to put the blame where it belongs.
They come home feeling pride for the good things they have done but none of that resonated over here because the bad news was the only thing that got coverage. and according to those i have spoken with, a lot of that reporting was innacurate and has remained un-corrected.

The good things outweigh the bad in Iraq, but you cannot tell that from the garbage and spin being shoved down our throats daily.

If you agree with this war or not, we should all remember who it is that is fighting it, and his name isn't Bush.
They are there, and the job must be finished before they come home.
It's the least we can do to keep from allowing them to feel dishonored when they return.
That is basically the only thing that reminds me of Vietnam in this mess.
I haven't heard of soldiers being spit on yet, but i can't imagine that being far off given the mentality of some who aren't over there seeing the truth first hand.

All i know is what i am told, and i'm inclined to believe the words of a person who was in the thick of it instead of some suited up journalist who only knows what he/she is told by whatever sources he/she relies on for their facts.
As i have said, there aren't any corrections made when the reporting is clearly faulty.

This is the reason i don't really want to form any opinions about it anymore. I just want our men and women to come home safe and leave Iraq with a fighting chance to live free.

And Ford, what flavor Kool-Aide do you prefer?
As i have stated before, If there is evidence of all the things you claim this administration is guilty of then why in the hell are these issues not being persued legally?
If you show me proof that wasn't fabricated, the kind that convicts crimals, then i'd join your fight in removing them from Washington.

It isn't like you haven't spent the last 4 years bitching about it non-stop, so are we basically just going to hear the same shit for another 4 years?
I don't see the logic in your thinking here.

Clinton couldn't even get away with getting a blowjob for crying out loud, so are we to believe that Bush could rack up a list of crimes and remain unpunished for them?
Sorry man, I find that completely hard to believe in this techno day and age.

The fact is that it is all just well fabricated speculation because if there was anything that could be used to boot Bush from office, there are enough Liberals to take him to task for it.

Am i wrong in thinking that? and if so, please explain.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Cathedral
No, it wasn't the media coverage alone.
How would you feel if you were sent to a foreign land to liberate a society from tyranny and opression, only to come home and find that you don't have the full support of your country?

They're being misled then.

Everyone I know supports the men and women over their fighting for their lives.

It's the actions, words, and deeds of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfie, et al that WE DONT SUPPORT.

If they can't tell the difference, then I am at a loss.

Besides, some that I've spoken to are just as pissed about being misled regarding the RE$ASONS for their deployment as anything.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
They're being misled then.

Everyone I know supports the men and women over their fighting for their lives.

It's the actions, words, and deeds of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfie, et al that WE DONT SUPPORT.

If they can't tell the difference, then I am at a loss.

Besides, some that I've spoken to are just as pissed about being misled regarding the RE$ASONS for their deployment as anything.

I can see both sides of the issue, which makes it very difficult for me to find a position to take.
So i stand behind the soldiers in any case.
The problem i think is the atmosphere of division, all i suggest is that we all think really hard before speaking our mind.
I'm sure you believe as i do that political banter aside, the safety of our military should be the top priority.

I'd like to think that politics end when fighting begins, but that is only true in a perfect world, especially in a war of this nature.

I just loath human suffering, but am optomistic that peace is attainable.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Cathedral
I can see both sides of the issue, which makes it very difficult for me to find a position to take.
So i stand behind the soldiers in any case.
The problem i think is the atmosphere of division, all i suggest is that we all think really hard before speaking our mind.
I'm sure you believe as i do that political banter aside, the safety of our military should be the top priority.

I'd like to think that politics end when fighting begins, but that is only true in a perfect world, especially in a war of this nature.

I just loath human suffering, but am optomistic that peace is attainable.

As a veteran, I too stand very much in support for the warriors in this conflict, that's why I want to get them home as safely and as soon as possible. I really haven't seen any reporting that is especially disparaging towards our soldiers.

But I have taken a few psychology classes and having viewed numerous programs on post-traumatic stress disorder. I think I can safely say that it is entirely impossible that merely viewing media coverage, no matter how negative will cause someone to go over the edge. Though sometimes I want to kick my TV when I hear the likes of Bill O'Reilly on Fox. Only the wartime experiences these guys had will cause trauma. Specifically, the suppressing of emotions during stressful or upsetting events in order to function in the heat of battle.

Seriously, I'll be very interested to see a study that compares the actual exposure ratio (as measured in the 'Days in Combat) of combat of veterans of this war as compared to Vietnam or WWII. I bet you, due to that fact the Military is effectively under-strength in Iraq, the day-to-day stress is much higher than previous conflicts.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Oh, I forgot, you're not a sinner...

By all means, please quote where I said this...

typical