Detroit Auto Show Bad News

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by bastardog
Phil theStalker, you really are stalking me

Since my first post I'm explaining that I'm NOT part of those puertorricans that wears a flag looking like clowns and that those puertorricans exits only in NY and NJ. I'm against that stupid puertorrican parade that make us looks like pest and that only could compared to the gay parade. I even found hillarious that Seindfeld chapter...

I'm sorry if I have offended you.

That's an apology, dude. Do you know how rare an apology is on a message board? It rarely t2o never happens.

You win. I'm OWNED.

You're smart enough and courageous enough t2o get int2o the mix. I admire that. It shows a lot of character.

I would enjoy reading you some more. You can probably teach us all a few things, certainly me. I don't learn when I don't listen. Stick around and post some more, dude. You are a Puerto Rican AMERICAN. You're o1ne of us.

[Horseskin]

I'll bet Flappo wishes he was an American.

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Horseskin
I'll bet Flappo wishes he was an American.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh Horseflesh, STOP!:D

[4moreyears]

One of the largest chunks of revenue from the sale of each car 1500 goes to health insurance. I buy used cars for that reason. A 1 to 2 year old car will will run as good as a brand new inmost cases and you are not paying entitlement to people who stopped bringing in revenue in for the company. That is an extra burden the company has to carry that foreign companies do not have to deal with.

[Cathedral]

I suggest people buy classic american (25 years or older) cars and pay to restore them to like new condition. it will be cheaper than buying new in a lot of cases, cheaper to maintain with all the NOS parts out there these days, and in most cases you could do the maintenance yourself.

They used to build cars to last but these days you'd be lucky to have any automobile in perfect working order 10 years down the road without having a maintenance record a mile long for them.

This summer my car should be done and it will become my daily driver after i sell off my truck and the van.
If i buy any new car it will be the Challenger, as long as it retains the look the spy photos show of the concept car.
Beyond that, I'm strictly a Classic American Muscle kind of guy from here on out.

You can still buy american, it just won't be anything built in the last 20 years.
But i'm willing to bet that my Charger will be more dependable than anything you can buy new today.

And it'll turn more heads than anything else on the road not to mention i can actually use the tool box in the trunk should i have a problem.
All i need is power steering and power brakes and i'm fine, a fully loaded car means you'll have more shit to fix later.

Now if i were one of those "new car every year" types, I wouldn't worry about it, but i'm not, I like to hang on to cars for a good long while so they have got to be in top condition always.

I can't remember the last time i drove a car with rust on it, lmmfao.

[thome]

I suggest people buy classic american (25 years or older) cars and pay to restore them to like new condition. it will be cheaper than buying new in a lot of cases, cheaper to maintain with all the NOS parts out there these days, and in most cases you could do the maintenance yourself.
.
.
.Good way to put it I love driving in a new hot of Stylish car.

However a Restored car of Truck if done rite can be worth 10to20 grand
And they look so cool..
yet the Property tax at the end of the year shows a 500$ jalopy and
your tax may only be 50 bucks or so wich makes me Happy to
Stick it to the Man...LOL

This can be troublesome when it comes to Full Coverage insurance.

I have heard of some states that you only pay property tax -at purchase-. In Kansas we pay at the month we renue our tags and
must pay a property tax based on the Blue Book value..

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by thome
I suggest people buy classic american (25 years or older) cars and pay to restore them to like new condition. it will be cheaper than buying new in a lot of cases, cheaper to maintain with all the NOS parts out there these days, and in most cases you could do the maintenance yourself.
.
.
.Good way to put it I love driving in a new hot of Stylish car.

However a Restored car of Truck if done rite can be worth 10to20 grand
And they look so cool..
yet the Property tax at the end of the year shows a 500$ jalopy and
your tax may only be 50 bucks or so wich makes me Happy to
Stick it to the Man...LOL

This can be troublesome when it comes to Full Coverage insurance.

I have heard of some states that you only pay property tax -at purchase-. In Kansas we pay at the month we renue our tags and
must pay a property tax based on the Blue Book value..

It's the same way in Kentucky, it costs my Dad 4 times what i pay to license his vehicle every year. It only cost me $57.50 per vehicle, and i have 3.
Insurance isn't an issue either if you have an appraised value for the car, then you can insure it for that value as long as it is documented because a classic car insured for $20,000 is still less payout then say a totalled Lexus or Infinity would be without bodily injury.
And one thing the insurance people know is that an older car will suffer much less damage in a minor fender bender.

You could of course register your car as a Historical Vehicle and pay less in premiums, but you are limited to when you can have the car on the road and if it is an off day according to the schedule, you won't be covered in an accident.
Personally, the price difference isn't enough for me to limit when i may want to drive the car, i intend to drive it everyday and i want my investment fully protected.

[Hardrock69]

I prefer to work on cars 25 years old or more, cause I do not need a degree in Computer Science Engineering Physics in order to change a spark plug.

I actually have a thing for mid-70s Ford Torinos (4-door version).

They have MASSIVE amoutns of leg room in front and in the back seat, they have a 351 engine in it, and I just like the way they look.

I had a 1976 Torino once that had formerly been a police cruiser. It had leather seats and power windows and was really cool. Some years later I had a 1975 Torino, and it ruled as well.

Maybe someday I will find another one for cheap and fix it up.

[bastardog]

Originally posted by Phil theStalker
I'm sorry if I have offended you.

That's an apology, dude. Do you know how rare an apology is on a message board? It rarely t2o never happens.

You win. I'm OWNED.

You're smart enough and courageous enough t2o get int2o the mix. I admire that. It shows a lot of character.

I would enjoy reading you some more. You can probably teach us all a few things, certainly me. I don't learn when I don't listen. Stick around and post some more, dude. You are a Puerto Rican AMERICAN. You're o1ne of us.

Thanks, is good to read it.....but if we are going to be cojoined twins I want to be the one on driver side.
Perhaps it still makes me feel sorry of how a small group of people (puertorricans in NY and NJ) can display an image that is not a representation of real puertorrican and that image gets burn in a good amount of people around them.
It makes me understand a little how feels the discriminated groups about the same kind of image in peoples head thing.


By the way I hate Fords but love Chevrolet, GMC and Dodge

[scamper]

Originally posted by bastardog
By the way I hate Ford

come on he's not that bad

[thome]

Originally posted by Hardrock69


I had a 1976 Torino once that had formerly been a police cruiser. It had leather seats and power windows and was really cool. Some years later I had a 1975 Torino, and it ruled as well.
. [/B]

Wasn't the two door 76 the Starsky and Hutch Ride, 76 Grand Torino..?

[FORD]

Originally posted by thome
Wasn't the two door 76 the Starsky and Hutch Ride, 76 Grand Torino..?

Yep, that's the one.

[Hardrock69]

And I do like the way they look, but for some reason I cannot figure out I like the 4-door versions better.

I always tried to figure out why I like the 4-door model, but I have not been able to figure it out....the bodies are identical, just one has 2 more doors than the other.

Oh yeah, also there is a a HUGE fucking trucnk.

I miss the days when cars were fucking CARS and NOT some goddamned roller skate built for fucking midgets!

[Jerry Falwell]

Originally posted by Phil theStalker
1st - I knew a shallow, superficial person would bring this up. Listen up...autoworkers don't get the benefits, dude. The medical profession, doctor specialists at $160 per 'visit', expensive X-rays (& X-ray readers at $175 just to "look at" the X-ray), CAT scans, testing labs, dentists with the same expensive 'overcharges' to the insurance corporations who still can pay the doctors and make billions for themselves, the pharmaceutical industry, etc., etc., etc., THEY get the billions and billions, with a 'B', of dollars not the poor autoworker with arthritis, a cavity, and an over bite working for that enormous $17/hr..

The medical field is raping Ford and GM and the U.S. autoworker is the patsy.

I won't argue here... You and I actually agree about the whole Dr. bit.

2nd - You know so much about the paltry $17/hr. Did you ever see what a VP at Ford or GM makes?

YEP...Every Friday morning when I wake up

They have VPs and suits everywhere you turn. Did you ever see what their floor foremen make? Did you ever see what an auto industry engineer makes plus their benefits? In fact, did you ever hear of a salaried manager who has no benefits? Did you ever hear of multi-million dollar 'golden parachutes' just to FIRE one of these managers? Do you know how much advertising firms and media suck the life out of an auto company for 30 seconds on the Superbowl? Yes you have. So why not talk about that. What is your major malfunction? Why do you want to hang the autoworker?

What is your malfunction? Have you participated in research that shows what the return is for advertising "exorbitant" amounts of money during the Super Bowl? Nope... didn't think so on that one either .

Also, your argument would be somewhat valid if these Big Wigs and management figures represented more than 1% of the total amount of money that these Auto Makers spend on salaries. Put it in perspective here. Not only that, but don't engineers and others at the top deserve to be paid what they make as compared to someone who opted to not go to school? Get out of your Utopian thought process and recognize what most people see as the Real World.

I don't take issue with suggesting that those powers that be at the top of these organizations shouldn't get nearly the size of bonuses that they have received in recent history while they are laying off thousands of people. That part really bothers me.

The auto corporations have skilled workers, welders, electricians, plumbers, millwrights, mechanics, etc., etc., etc., and like any employer they wanted to keep these skilled workers so they entered into legal and binding contracts that were agreed to and negotiated through long and hard negotiations between the workers unions and the corporations lawyers from the ivy league colleges of Harvard and Yale. As it is the same with other large industries.

Now, they want to back out of those legal and binding contracts. If you or I wanted to back out of contracts we agreed to and signed off on we couldn't get away with it. No court in the land would let us get out of those contracts WE signed. So why do you think a corporation can?

Again your ignorance speaks loudly. Why is it that these workers in these career fields make far more money than people in like
fields that work in another industry? Oh Yeah... because of these heavenly Unions. Look, I like what Unions did for my father (plumber). If you consider cost of living, they (plumbers) get pretty much the same amount of money nation wide if they are in a Union. No problems there. You are going to sit here and tell me that a worker on a line that pushes one stinkin button repeatedly all day long while sitting on a stool and taking a fifteen minute "Wash Break" every work hour deserves ~$17 and hour to start out (In Oklahoma). Okay then, you are officially a dumbass!!!

You seem to think corporations like Ford, GM, Visteon, Delphi, airlines, coal mine owners, etc., and the rest CAN back out of their legal and bindng contracts with workers. This is amazing as well as illegal and insane.

Not at all. You are clumping up all sorts of industries with one broad stroke. Some of them need to have Unions in order to protect them. Unions in their original and truest form had great intentions that I applaud. However, the uaw got carried away and has contributed to their own demise (I said CONTRIBUTED, not that they are the SOLE reason).

If you think that GM twisted the arms of the Union to get the most recent reduction in benefits, then you are uneducated on the subject... Imagine that.

Here's what really happened, GM told the UAW that they were on the verge of filing for Bankruptcy.... The UAW tried to call their bluff and this forced GM to open up their financial books with the Union. After seeing the state of their finances, the Union knew darn good and well that they would all be out of jobs in a heartbeat if they didn't agree to make changes. Don't play like they were the victims here. GM was having far worse financial issues than what the news was reporting... and the media painted a pretty grim picture.

This country is in fascist heaven right now, and your ignorance of the American auto worker, and all American workers represented by a union and/or a contract to work under, is as ignorant as your knowledge, or lack of, about our government servants who voted in 'globalist', corporatist, fascist NAFTA, CAFTA, FTAA, plus treaties under the WTO governing and regulating 'global' trade and investment laws, with more to come.

In every paragraph of those 'globalist' laws you will see the words " to improve the free flow of investment, trade, and goods". Nowhere do you read one word about RIGHTS.

And the war will be about RIGHTS.

Put a can of beans away each day. I've pointed out yours and too many others who ignorantly regurgitate this vomit of ignorance about the whole, entire reality of facts. And in only a few paragraphs, because it's not that hard to see. Unless you're as ignorant as you sound and you've been brainwashed by that boob tube and/or 'corporate' newspapers.

I'm sick of hearing from shallow, superficial people.

You only have 36 months before your corporatist, your superior medical professionals, insurance companies, and legislators turn America into a Third World nation 'overnight'.

Being that I work in the Auto Industry, I know more so than any outsider how dispensable we are as workers. Reality sucks! Deal with it and make good financial choices now if you are working for Ford or GM! That's the way it is.

In defense of the corporate entities, they are backed into a corner and somewhat handcuffed. Thanks to a greedy Union over the last 30 years, poor decisions in upper management, and extremely cheap labor costs overseas, they have one hell of a mountain to climb. I hope and pray for that matter that they will figure something out quick. But considering that China can build a vehicle at $3.40 per work hour (includes all benefits) and the fact that GM/Ford averages ~$65 per work hour (including benefits), I'd say that things aren't lookin' so hot for my future. But I'll end up just fine, I always do.

[Jerry Falwell]

BTW Phil.... I didn't mean to make the last post a personal attack. I'm awful frustrated about more than your response right now.

Forgive me.