Straight from the horses mouth

[scamper]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Um, most troops think Bush is an asshat, and his superficial, temporary plan for "victory," or the "Surge," is not a long term answer...

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2006/dec/29/poll_troops_disapprove_of_bush_on_iraq_majority_opposes_troops_increase

http://www.militarycity.com/polls/2006_main.php

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Yeah, apparently the administration doesn't think much of competence either...

But you believe in online bullshit politicized affirmations by people possibly pretending to be soldiers?

hhhhmmmm....

[FORD]

Popeye meets Japanese anime......

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[Guitar Shark]

LOL @ FORD's sig:

Originally posted by Warham
I don't believe there are any less trees on the Earth now than there were 100 years ago.

He didn't really say that, did he?

[FORD]

Yes he did. And he believes it!

Apparently the latest right wing propaganda claims that there are more trees in North America now than when Columbus first stopped by for a visit in 1492. As usual, they don't have a rational explanation for such an irrational estimate.

[Wallyg]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
Thanks!

Here's the biggest problem with everything involving this war. There are 2 kinds of people involved in the US side.

There are those who understand a soldier's mentality, a soldier's allegiance to the flag, and the soldier's goals in life.

The opposing side is a society of people who have no CLUE how those that enlist can see honor in self-sacrifice, or allegiance to much of anything.

The sad part is that the soldier understands that their commitments aren't recognized or respected by everyone, but the others work AGAINST the soldier and call it "saving their lives".

Clue, they don't want you to meddle in their missions! They don't want Monday quarterbacking telling them how they're supposed to think differently.

They want their mission to be successful, they want to do a good job, and they want to come home with HONOR.

Brilliant post!!!
A good friend 's son serves in Bagdad and what you wrote is true but what do the "clueless" know about HONOR?

[FORD]

Originally posted by Wallyg
what do the "clueless" know about HONOR?

Good question.........

[Ellyllions]

Originally posted by FORD
A lot less stupid than say.... more tax cuts for the rich being tacked on to a minimum wage increase bill, which the Repukes in Congress did last year, and then tried to use the resulting defeat of the bill to say "Democrats oppose increasing minimum wage"

Wait a minute...who signed the minimum wage increase?

http://www.wbz1030.com/pages/51488.php?contentType=4&contentId=165045

Democrats Want More for Minimum

NEW YORK -- Democrats Raise Stakes In Minimum Wage Debate

If there was any doubt that this is election season note that members of Congress are scheduled for an automatic $3,300 cost-of-living pay raise the first of the year. And Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada is now saying Democrats will block that increase, unless the $5.15 federal minimum hourly wage is raised to $7.25 over the next two-and-a-half years.

"It's not that complicated. Minimum wage - increase it, we'll look at a cost-of-living increase. No minimum wage increase, no cost of living increase for members of congress."

Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid says he's not kidding…

"We're going to do anything it takes to stop their being a congressional pay raise this year."

Members get regular increases pegged to the cost of living. They currently make $165,200 a year. The minimum wage for the country's lowest paid workers is flat - not pegged to the cost of living.

"Since 1997 the minimum wage has been frozen at 5.15 an hour. That's about 10 thousand dollars a year, if you work 40 hours a week. That is unfair and we've had enough of it, and I think the American people have also."

The Republican position has been that boosting the minimum wage would not only hurt employers, but discourage them from additional hiring. The second-ranking Democrat in the Senate, Dick Durbin of Illinois.

"This Congress should not receive a cost-of-living adjustment until the minimum wage workers across America receive an increase in pay. They've been waiting for nine years, that's long enough."

Election-year tactic? Why no, says Durbin.

"We've decided that the only way to catch the attention of the Republican majority of this Congress is to hit 'em where they live."

It's where the Democrats live too, of course.

But Popeye's favorite vegetable isn't the problem here, and Chimpy knows it. What he really doesn't like about the funding bill is that it contains a concrete exit date for the Iraq occupation.

It's well within the rights of Congress to put reasonable terms on said occupation, if they're expected to fund it. But Monkeyboy doesn't like that.

Of course he doesn't like that. Social services calls and says, "Yeah, we're coming to see your house tomorrow. If it's not up-to-par, we're taking your kids." Mommy hangs up the phone and tells her 7 year old, "Help mommy put away her crack pipe and empty beer cans or they'll take you away and leave you with strangers." That's just dumb as hell, Ford!

That's simple. The situation in Iraq is already bad enough, let's announce a withdrawal date! If there was some way to keep the plans a secret then I'd be all for a withdrawal date. But there is no way to create that without putting our troops and the Iraqi's in danger.

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by FORD
Yes he did. And he believes it!

Apparently the latest right wing propaganda claims that there are more trees in North America now than when Columbus first stopped by for a visit in 1492. As usual, they don't have a rational explanation for such an irrational estimate.

But he said on the "Earth," so apparently he thinks the whole "deforestation" thing (in the Amazon and other places) is a myth.

Ah, the bliss of ignorance.

[FORD]

The troops are IN danger. Two or three of them get killed every day, and those are the "good" days. And even that number is a falsehood, since the BCE falsifies the casualty count by ONLY counting those who actually die in the field, not those who die in the hospital, or even in the chopper on the way to the hospital.

If the REAL number of deaths and seriously wounded (brain injuries, amputees, etc) was ever published, even brainwashed FAUX fans would be making like Jane Fonda tommorrow morning and this shit would be over.

And that is EXACTLY why the BCE is funding propaganda campaigns to create the illusion that "the troops are all shiny happy people being sitting ducks without armor, without one valid reason for being there in the first place".

All this bullshit about "honor" and "integrity" coming from the Busheep. There is no honor or integrity in a LIE.


None.

[scamper]

Maybe if they set a withdrawl date things will settle down, and then when the date arrives they can say just foolin. Just an idea

[Ellyllions]

Originally posted by FORD

All this bullshit about "honor" and "integrity" coming from the Busheep. There is no honor or integrity in a LIE.


None.

Have you EVER even MET a real Marine? I mean really even come face to face with anyone in the Military service?

Do you know anything about their core values? If you answered no to any of these questions then you aren't qualified to defend either verbally or non-verbally on anything regarding the war in Iraq or any other such military maneuvers.

And don't give me anymore BCE crap all of the branches were created WAY before your BCE came to "power". Maybe the Scientology aliens will come and whisk you away from all of this soon. But mind your ass, I hear aliens like to probe....

[FORD]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
Have you EVER even MET a real Marine? I mean really even come face to face with anyone in the Military service?

Do you know anything about their core values? If you answered no to any of these questions then you aren't qualified to defend either verbally or non-verbally on anything regarding the war in Iraq or any other such military maneuvers.

You're missing the entire point. The Marines and the soldiers aren't to blame for this insane and illegal clusterfuck. Nobody, to my knowledge, ever said they were - with the possible exception of those pitiful few who definitely DID act dishonorably, like the shit for brains hillbillies at Abu Ghraib.

The majority of them did their jobs the best they could under the circumstances, but that does NOT justify the fact that the circumstances themselves are wrong.

The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) says that illegal orders can be REFUSED. If a war is illegal, then any order given in that war is arguably illegal as well. Lt. Ahren Watada believes this, so he refused to go. Thanks to him, that question will be debated in court, as it should be.

There is nothing at all "dishonorable" about ending this fucking travesty NOW and bringing the boys home. Nobody I know would accuse them of failure for aborting a so-called (undefinable) mission which they never should have been forced into in the first place.

And don't give me anymore BCE crap all of the branches were created WAY before your BCE came to "power". Maybe the Scientology aliens will come and whisk you away from all of this soon. But mind your ass, I hear aliens like to probe....

Who the hell brought Scientology into this? Have you been over at Links or something??

The BCE is in this discussion because they are the ones who have consistently abused the military over the last 50 years.

The United States military has not been used according to its constitutional role since WWII.

Korea is not the United States. Nor is Vietnam. Nor is Iraq.

This shit needs to end, and the Armed Forces of the United States should NEVER AGAIN be used for any other purpose than defending the United States of America. The one and only exception to that would be contributing troops to a UN multinational relief effort like in Africa, or in the event of a serious national disaster, like the Asian tsunami a couple years back.

Fuck this corporatism enforced by the barrel of a gun shit. There is NOTHING honorable about that.

[blueturk]

Originally posted by Roy Munson
God, I love threads like this. Elly is showing you guys your assholes through a magnifying glass, but be careful you don't drop the magnifying glass INTO your asshole cause you will lose it forever.

It all boils down to this...

We are fighting a war right now. It doesn't fucking matter how or why it started at this point. We are there and we need to WIN THIS WAR HOWEVER POSSIBLE. If we get out, or set a timetable to get out, then WE LOSE.



This is simple...

Dems want us to lose and leave with our tails between our legs.

Reps want to WIN and finish the job.

The Dems are making HUGE asses of themselves right now in Congress with all of this posturing and procrastinating while our troops NEED THE FUCKING MONEY.

History will tell what these shameless assholes are really made of.

What the hell is the definition of "winning" this war? What IS the fucking job? When the Iraqi's end their civil war? Do you really think our presence in Iraq is going to make these people get along with each other, in the name of democracy or anything else? Nobody is going to withhold money from the troops regardless of Reid's posturing, and I think you know that. Your wool is showing.

"You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror." --George W. Bush, interview with CBS News' Katie Couric, Sept. 6, 2006

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
Ok, first off, Knuckleboner has it right...the soldiers feel that they made a promise to those people when they took out the Iraqi government and kept seeing insurgency trying to take it's place.

GREAT article Nick! Honestly...but it furthers the above point. What's been happening is that the troops are becoming more and more disconnected from the Administration because of:
1) no nukes found (yes there has been caches of chemical weapons found but no nuclear materials);

2) the insurgency ends up being nothing more than ordinary citizens and in some cases they've killed a lot of civilians because they were "told" that they were armed insurgency....they ended up being insurgency just possibly not armed at the time. (soldiers feel like murderers)

3) At this point, they're so restricted on use of force because there are crazy "watchdog" organizations just waiting to pounce with a report to Al-Jazeera or the Democrats that American soldiers are slaughtering civilians. So they end up "sitting ducks" and soldiers HATE that.

So, the opinion of the Administration (including the darling Democratic Senate) has steadily declined, and the opinion of even being there in the first place is declining.

They're training Iraqis and it takes them 2 times as long to learn as it did their American counterparts. It's a daily struggle to keep the Iraqi soldiers from throwing down their guns and bolting when a fire-fight occurs, or an Iraqi police officer from beating a petty thief within an inch of their life in a market street. It feels like they know what they need to do but the Iraqi's just refuse to try.

BUT, their compassion is greater than ours. They know we're battling over politics over here, they know every possible element is working against them, but they feel like they made the mess and they should clean it up. They don't want to come home feeling like they tore a country down and then left it to ruin. One of the videos the soldier said, "We left them in '91 and they remember that."

Right now, the US Servicemen/and women that are serving in Iraq are mentally disconnected from everything. They don't feel the Administration knows what the fuck they're doing, they know they're having to become somewhat independent and work daily to earn the trust of the Iraqi's that they're surrounded by, and they know the whole world is including them (individually) in their opinion of the war. They're over there alone at this point...and for them to see news coverage of "peaceful" protestors setting fire to a set of stuffed camoflage while an idiot defecates on the flag within 10 feet...well we just alienate them even more.

Now, 2 questions....

1) How come when a video or article or web site is posted here that has information on it that might not be what you agree with, it's touted as being a fraud? Do you really think you're that right in everything? Are you that narrow-minded to believe that everyone on the planet has only one mind-set? Are you really that paranoid to think there's a conspiracy behind everything?

2) Why in the world would anyone be surprised that there are permanent barracks going up in Iraq? There are barracks in every country that we've been at war with since what.....1941? Did you really think we wouldn't have a post in Iraq?

Seriously, WTF are you talking about?

Is Xanax that much of a trip?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
Have you EVER even MET a real Marine? I mean really even come face to face with anyone in the Military service?

Yes. I talked to two MPs at a friends wedding years ago...

Do you know anything about their core values? If you answered no to any of these questions then you aren't qualified to defend either verbally or non-verbally on anything regarding the war in Iraq or any other such military maneuvers.

LMFAO. Hun,' your fucking delusional. Sorry, but there it is. The thin self-righteousness of your posts, seeped in self-serving ignorance, is telling to the point of offensiveness...

How about you're not "qualified" to make such overweening, gratuitous generalizations.

The "core values" of the two Marines I met was to go out to a certain lesbian bar so they could pick up bisexual girls for threeways. In short, they were pretty much up there with any men their age, only they were less educated and refined...

And I knew some pretty big cunts when I was in the US Army too, so you can spare me the lecture of the holy martyrs that walk on water, past snipers and IEDs. I don't think most soldiers want to be characterized in that way. I certainly didn't.

I mean, to idolatrize them is silly. And the vast majority that I've met range from severally disgruntled to moderately tolerant with Bush's policies. And people have every right to express their opinion. I think in fact that there is nary a NeoCOn war supported on this board that has ever seen any sort of service, and certainly not any combat. What gives them the right to claim to "support the troops" that are on their third tours because there simply are not enough servicemen to occupy Iraq properly? And then attack anyone posting the Walter Reed scandal article?

Oh, and BTW, I hate to break this to you: but a lot of US "boots on the ground" can't stand the Iraqis whom they often see as corrupted, incompetent, and infiltrated with Sunni resistance and Shiite Militias. I think the idealism presented by these posts is largely contrived by NeoCon Republican partisans seeking to cover Dumbya's ass rather than to seek any sort of solution in Iraq.....

And don't give me anymore BCE crap all of the branches were created WAY before your BCE came to "power". Maybe the Scientology aliens will come and whisk you away from all of this soon. But mind your ass, I hear aliens like to probe....

Really? Like your crap post about Democrats and Al Jazeera "inventing" US War crimes stories? We found chemical weapons in Iraq? Um, sorry, not really. Not the WMDs...

Jesus, easy on the Zoloft...