Obama will try to block executive bonuses at AIG

[hideyoursheep]

Fair Housing is what created the OPPORTUNITY for this to happen. It opened up all kinds of ways for abuse, with no real oversight.

Bullshit!

It was the banks fault, and noone else's. No one twisted their arms to do this shit!
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[Nickdfresh]

Unfair taxation is a basic tenet of the Constitution. This is clearly an example of that.

You mean like the middle classes paying a HIGHER percentage of their income than the affluent?

Fair Housing is what created the OPPORTUNITY for this to happen. It opened up all kinds of ways for abuse, with no real oversight. Let's start there. You want to blame the continued poor oversight over many administrations, I'm right there with you.

Um, no. It was the rollback of barriers between banking and Wall Street along with brokerages being able to take on far more debt than they had the assets for...

I pay a lot in taxes, maybe you feel you don't, but all I see from this is waste. I have no problem paying my fair share, but I don't like giving more than is needed for the express purposes taxation is for. I guess you do.

I pay plenty in fucking taxes, I'm a NY resident saddled with a blind governor. And I'm pissed some don't have to pay their fair share so they can hide behind the shelters and loopholes...

[Big Train]

Bullshit!

It was the banks fault, and noone else's. No one twisted their arms to do this shit!

How is it bullshit? Again, as I often point out to Nick, I am not saying the banks or republicans or whatever are blameless, I'm saying the OPPORTUNITY was created by Fair Housing, pure and simple. There were other loopholes elsewhere to exploit, but this one was the easiest post 2000, after the Internet bubble.

If it was so well written, there never would have been such a runup on housing. The slimy bankers would have focused on something else.

[Big Train]

You mean like the middle classes paying a HIGHER percentage of their income than the affluent?

Interesting side argument for a different thread, I'd like less taxes for everyone (but your side can't stop funding shit excessively) but on this point, not worth exploring.

Um, no. It was the rollback of barriers between banking and Wall Street along with brokerages being able to take on far more debt than they had the assets for...

Um, yes. That was a piece of it yes, but what they chose to do with those funds have everything in the world to do with Fair Housing. If it wasn't so easy, that money would have went elsewhere.

I pay plenty in fucking taxes, I'm a NY resident saddled with a blind governor. And I'm pissed some don't have to pay their fair share so they can hide behind the shelters and loopholes...

I'm not fond of shelters either. I'm equally as pissed by those who pay little to none and bitch all day about who should pay what. Mostly, I'm pissed for us all because we are digger a deeper hole with way more taxes to pay.

[kwame k]

How is it bullshit? Again, as I often point out to Nick, I am not saying the banks or republicans or whatever are blameless, I'm saying the OPPORTUNITY was created by Fair Housing, pure and simple. There were other loopholes elsewhere to exploit, but this one was the easiest post 2000, after the Internet bubble.

If it was so well written, there never would have been such a runup on housing. The slimy bankers would have focused on something else.

Do you know what Fair Housing is?

So an anti-discrimination Act caused the current meltdown?

Here's a quick review for you.......

The Fair Housing Laws:
Fair Housing Act
Title VIII of the Civil Rights Act of 1968 (Fair Housing Act), as amended, prohibits discrimination in the sale, rental, and financing of dwellings, and in other housing-related transactions, based on race, color, national origin, religion, sex, familial status (including children under the age of 18 living with parents or legal custodians, pregnant women, and people securing custody of children under the age of 18), and handicap (disability). More on the Fair Housing Act


Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964
Title VI prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, or national origin in programs and activities receiving federal financial
assistance.

Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973
Section 504 prohibits discrimination based on disability in any program or activity receiving federal financial assistance.

Section 109 of Title I of the Housing and Community Development Act of 1974
Section 109 prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, national origin, sex or religion in programs and activities receiving financial assistance from HUD's Community Development and Block Grant Program.

Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990
Title II prohibits discrimination based on disability in programs, services, and activities provided or made available by public entities. HUD enforces Title II when it relates to state and local public housing, housing assistance and housing referrals.

Architectural Barriers Act of 1968
The Architectural Barriers Act requires that buildings and facilities designed, constructed, altered, or leased with certain federal funds after September 1969 must be accessible to and useable by handicapped persons.

Age Discrimination Act of 1975
The Age Discrimination Act prohibits discrimination on the basis of age in programs or activities receiving federal financial assistance.

Title IX of the Education Amendments Act of 1972
Title IX prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex in education programs or activities that receive federal financial assistance.

Link

Yup, that's it. The second we gave Fair Housing rights to Minorities back in 1968, the downward spiral to this housing bubble started. Had nothing to do with criminal Lending Practices and Wall Street. Just give Minorities a chance at not being discriminated against and the opportunity at housing, all hell breaks loose!

[hideyoursheep]

There you go.

And for the record, BT, The Ohio AG has fought and won countless lawsuits against so-called "mortgage companies" for predatory lending. Another big problem has been mortgage companies buying off appraisers...and you know damned well why.

Who gives a shit about what the Ohio AG does?, you say...Well, I do...and if this is a national issue, then I'm sure every state could do the same if they had the balls.
On deck is Freddie Mac.

[Nickdfresh]

Interesting side argument for a different thread, I'd like less taxes for everyone (but your side can't stop funding shit excessively) but on this point, not worth exploring.

Qui? "My side?" Um, George Dumbya Bush wasn't on "my side" bro. He was on YOURS!!!

Um, yes. That was a piece of it yes, but what they chose to do with those funds have everything in the world to do with Fair Housing. If it wasn't so easy, that money would have went elsewhere.

No. It goes way beyond "Fair Housing." It had to do with high risk loans which means high payoff interest rates. Something the greedy pricks couldn't get enough of

I'm not fond of shelters either. I'm equally as pissed by those who pay little to none and bitch all day about who should pay what. Mostly, I'm pissed for us all because we are digger a deeper hole with way more taxes to pay.

Many of those that "pay none" are corporations funding "libertarian think tanks" that bitch about taxes - but suffice to say, we agree on something...

[Big Train]

Everybody is guilty, I think I have said that a few times now. I'm just saying government created the opportunity and failed to enforce their own laws when things got abused. Both parties, many administrations.

Fair Housing (which was abused to argue it is discrimination to not give out bad subprime loans) , the repeal of Glass-Steagall, Freddie Mac, Frank's indifference. These are government's wrongs.

Then yea, the banks who abused those loopholes, the hedge funds, the slimy subprime loan companies. They are just as guilty.

I don't think any of us are disagreeing necessarily, I just see it as it started at the government level.

And yea Sheep, I do care what happens in Ohio. Report back when they have a decision.

[kwame k]

The only thing you are way off base on is The Fair Housing Act. Could someone have used the Act to force a lender to lend to them, the laws of probability might give you a small return but so insignificant to the Housing Bubble and Wall Street it doesn't even deserve to be mentioned. When you consider that HUD was warning about the discrimination aspect and even came out with a study saying that a majority of predatory sub-prime lending was overwhelmingly skewed towards minorities, I find it hard to blame The Fair Housing Act for any of our current problems.

Fair Housing has nothing to do with your argument and where you picked up your information as to why it does, is faulty at best.

[WACF]

Everybody is guilty, I think I have said that a few times now. I'm just saying government created the opportunity and failed to enforce their own laws when things got abused. Both parties, many administrations.

Fair Housing (which was abused to argue it is discrimination to not give out bad subprime loans) , the repeal of Glass-Steagall, Freddie Mac, Frank's indifference. These are government's wrongs.

Then yea, the banks who abused those loopholes, the hedge funds, the slimy subprime loan companies. They are just as guilty.

I don't think any of us are disagreeing necessarily, I just see it as it started at the government level.

And yea Sheep, I do care what happens in Ohio. Report back when they have a decision.

The government is at fault first and foremost for deregulating the banks...


The banks up here tried hard in 98 to pressure the government...thankfully our PM(at the time Cretien...not a big fan of the guy but he did make some damn good decisions) told them to take a hike...

[Nickdfresh]

...
Fair Housing (which was abused to argue it is discrimination to not give out bad subprime loans) , the repeal of Glass-Steagall, Freddie Mac, Frank's indifference. These are government's wrongs.

...

Which is complete bullshit as evidenced by the fact that "predatory lenders" actually SOUGHT out sub prime loans due to the interest terms they could charge...

Yeah, the poor poor lenders...forced by Barney Frank who personally insured that everyone that was unemployed in Compton got a loan...

[kwame k]

Dear AIG, I quit!

Jake DeSantis, an executive VP at AIG, is quitting.
AIG executive Jake DeSantis' resignation letter to Chief Executive Edward Liddy, the boss he has never met, was published in The New York Times on Wednesday, and has created a firestorm across the Internet.
In just a shade under 1,500 words, DeSantis defends his $742,006.40 (after taxes) bonus, which he now plans to donate; berates Liddy for committing a "breach of trust" in allegedly asking for bonuses to be returned; and calls out Attorney Generals Andrew Cuomo and Richard Blumenthal as bullies for threatening to "name and shame" bonus recipients.
DeSantis, an executive vice president of AIG’s financial products unit, writes:

"I was in no way involved in — or responsible for — the credit default swap transactions that have hamstrung A.I.G. Nor were more than a handful of the 400 current employees of A.I.G.-F.P. Most of those responsible have left the company and have conspicuously escaped the public outrage. After 12 months of hard work dismantling the company — during which A.I.G. reassured us many times we would be rewarded in March 2009 — we in the financial products unit have been betrayed by A.I.G. and are being unfairly persecuted by elected officials."
The angered employee, who was "raised by schoolteachers working multiple jobs in a world of closing steel mills" and has worked for AIG for 11 years, shames Liddy:

"My guess is that in October, when you learned of these retention contracts, you realized that the employees of the financial products unit needed some incentive to stay and that the contracts, being both ethical and useful, should be left to stand. That’s probably why A.I.G. management assured us on three occasions during that month that the company would 'live up to its commitment' to honor the contract guarantees. That may be why you decided to accelerate by three months more than a quarter of the amounts due under the contracts. That action signified to us your support, and was hardly something that one would do if he truly found the contracts 'distasteful.'"
And in a final quip to the attorney general of Connecticut:

"I'm not sure how you will greet my resignation, but at least Attorney General Blumenthal should be relieved that I'll leave under my own power and will not need to be 'shoved out the door.'"
In usual blogger fashion, opinions on the letter ranged from supportive:

"They are heroes. They are victims of a rich hunt."

"The letter by AIG executive Jake DeSantis submitting his resignation should be a cause of shame for the politicians and pundits hounding AIG in connection with its payment of retention bonuses. It eloquently articulates the disgust appropriate to the occasion. Thanks to the New York Times for publishing."
…to seething:

"After this ludicrous attempt at jabbing the American taxpayer — we think that Jake probably won't have to worry about spending 10 hours away from home — no company will touch him after this."

"Are we better off because a skilled trader has left, and his book will now be wound down by someone who doesn't know it, or the markets, as well?"
America’s outrage over the exorbitant bonuses has thrust AIG into the spotlight, and has turned the struggling behemoth into the poster child for greed and mismanagement. This is one of the first defenses of the company we’ve heard — are there more to come?

Link

[kwame k]

If this wasn't so crucial to all of our well being and the enormous burden we are creating for future generations...........This shit would be funny.

[FORD]

Apparently it's just one division of AIG that's causing all this bullshit. So, as Keith Olbermann said last week, it's time to bust up this huge corporation (and others) and isolate these fuckers, and let this division die. Along with Goldman Sachs who are the real treasonous fucks behind most of this thievery. Every single employee of Goldman Sachs should be dead or behind bars for life for what they have done to this country.

[Big Train]

Which is complete bullshit as evidenced by the fact that "predatory lenders" actually SOUGHT out sub prime loans due to the interest terms they could charge...

Yeah, the poor poor lenders...forced by Barney Frank who personally insured that everyone that was unemployed in Compton got a loan...

Once again Nick, you are spot on with what I was saying....excellent work.

I've never said the poor lenders or anyone who chose to do business in the subprime market. I'm saying the government set up conditions (deregulation, lax enforcement and policies that were ill-advised to begin with, based off sound rules-i.e. Fair Housing), from which certain forms of private enterprise began to exploit.

I've also never said poor homeowners, who didn't bother to learn what they were doing.

I've also never said poor investors in these companies who have lost loads of money.

The only thing I have said is that government (by lobbyists or whomever, over the course of many administrations) set the conditions for this to happen.