President Obama's Nowruz message to Iranian people

[Nickdfresh]

No, but Reagan invited the mujahideen (taliban) over for tea. He compared them to the founding fathers.

Just like you seem to sympathize with Shi'ite extremist superstitious cunts basing their political power on a construction of Islam that never actually existed to begin with - and continue to confound the actual will and interests of their people...

But actually that is a gratuitous oversimplification as no one used the term "Taliban" until after the Soviets left and we lost interest...

They're fanatical because of your countries interference in their politics.

No. They're fanatics because it keeps them in power. If the US is no longer "interfering," then the US cannot be at fault any longer, enabler...

Everyone outside the US should just be indifferent to this and just gratefully accept all that they're given by the US shouldn't they? Each time their liberty and pride is trampled upon? Are you able to look at these issues from even a slightly non-American perspective?

No. They should accept that their well-educated population as a whole does not support an "Islamic Republic," and they are every bit as much pricks as the US has ever been...

The fact is that the Mullah cunts are FAR FAR MORE afraid of Obama than they ever were Bush, Reagan, etc...

In no small part because Obama can loosely be translated to the term "with us" in Farsi I think...

[Andy Taylor]

Well, you're ignorant, and speak pretentious garbage all the time...

And how the fuck would Kucinich or Paul change Iran?

It's not ignorant, it's just things beyond your liberal grasp.


It has nothing to do with changing Iran, that's the point you just like conservatives don't get. It's not your business to fashion the world in your image and what's happened there happened because of the meddling not non-intervention. It's not conservatives that build an empire half the time, it's liberal do gooder types that believe they know best and like the British or any other empire believe they 'educate the savages' or in this case 'bring democracy' to nations. If China supported radical elements in the US it would be destabilised too.

Those two candidates wanted withdrawal from those countries and Paul wanted Iran to be a full trading partner. At the least it would soften their attitude towards the US and whether or not it changes Iran, it would atleast cease to be a threat to the US, if it ever was. No more fake, manufactured wars, is that good enough a reason?

[Nickdfresh]

"They chant the slogan of change but no change is seen in practice. We haven't seen any change," Khamenei said in a speech before a crowd of tens of thousands in the northeastern holy city of Mashhad.

Khamenei asked how Obama could congratulate Iranians on the new year and accuse the country of supporting terrorism and seeking nuclear weapons in the same message.

Khamenei said there has been no change even in Obama's language compared to that of his predecessor.

"He (Obama) insulted the Islamic Republic of Iran from the first day. If you are right that change has come, where is that change? What is the sign of that change? Make it clear for us what has changed."

Still, Khamenei left the door open to better ties with America, saying "should you change, our behavior will change too."

Khamenei enumerated a long list of Iranian grievances against the United States over the past 30 years and said the U.S. was still interfering in Iranian affairs.

He mentioned U.S. sanctions against Iran, U.S. support for Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein during his 1980-88 war against Iran and the downing of an Iranian airliner over the Persian Gulf in 1988.

He also accused the U.S. of provoking ethnic tension in Iran and said Washington's accusations that Iran is seeking nuclear weapons are a sign of U.S. hostility. Iran says its nuclear program is only for peaceful purposes, like energy production, not for building weapons.

"Have you released Iranian assets? Have you lifted oppressive sanctions? Have you given up mudslinging and making accusations against the great Iranian nation and its officials? Have you given up your unconditional support for the Zionist regime? Even the language remains unchanged," Khamenei said.

Obama has signaled a willingness to speak directly with Iran about its nuclear program and hostility toward Israel, a key U.S. ally. At his inauguration last month, the president said his administration would reach out to rival states, declaring "we will extend a hand if you are willing to unclench your fist."

"They say we have stretched a hand toward Iran. ... If a hand is stretched covered with a velvet glove but it is cast iron inside, that makes no sense," he said.

He left out the part about how his gov't uses cheap antisemitism and anti-US rhetoric to blame others for their failures in their economy and that pretty much the entire Islamic world loathes Iran and doesn't trust them...

And they were every bit as much to blame for prolonging the Iran-Iraq War as Saddam was...

And the US support for Saddam, while completely hypocritical and distasteful to say the least, was in large measure revenge for the murder of 300 US Marine "peace-keepers" in Lebanon in 1983...BTW, they also illegally aided terrorists in the killing of 18 US servicemen and other Saudis in the Khobar Tower bombing, because Iran seems to believe they have the right to tell the Saudis what to do and who should be their allies...

[Andy Taylor]

Just like you seem to sympathize with Shi'ite extremist superstitious cunts basing their political power on a construction of Islam that never actually existed to begin with - and continue to confound the actual will and interests of their people...

But actually that is a gratuitous oversimplification as no one used the term "Taliban" until after the Soviets left and we lost interest...

Their crimes don't come anywhere near that of the global empire and saying so is highly absurd.

Whether the name taliban was used or no makes no big difference.

No. They're fanatics because it keeps them in power. If the US is no longer "interfering," then the US cannot be at fault any longer, enabler...

The US is no longer interfering? And they're all mindless fanatics after power? Lord forbid anyone feels any anger over having their leaders toppled, dicatators installed and in seeing their neighbours in Palestine being killed by American planes. I'm not Arab or Muslim but I still loathe the US for it.

No. They should accept that their well-educated population as a whole does not support an "Islamic Republic," and they are every bit as much pricks as the US has ever been...

Not even close. I was talking about the Iranian people, but in being anti-american I think they definitely see eye to eye with the establishment.

The fact is that the Mullah cunts are FAR FAR MORE afraid of Obama than they ever were Bush, Reagan, etc...

In no small part because Obama can loosely be translated to the term "with us" in Farsi I think...

What's this pretentious bullshit?

[Nickdfresh]

It's not ignorant, it's just things beyond your liberal grasp.

You failed to provide specifics nor any clarification showing you have no idea what in the crickey-fuck you are talking about other than the general, gratuitous assertions of typical knee-jerk(off) anti-American Euro-wanker cliche...

I know, everything is all our fault. Just like Northern Ireland is all your fault, and Irish "freedom fighters" should blame you for all their ills. So if a bomb goes off in Glasgow, or London, it's really your fault. Right?

It has nothing to do with changing Iran, that's the point you just like conservatives don't get. It's not your business to fashion the world in your image and what's happened there happened because of the meddling not non-intervention.

It's not just the US. It is YOUR nation too, pugsley. Apparently, you know fuckall about the specific issues. And no matter what any US president does, it's not good enough.

It's not conservatives that build an empire half the time, it's liberal do gooder types that believe they know best and like the British or any other empire believe they 'educate the savages' or in this case 'bring democracy' to nations. If China supported radical elements in the US it would be destabilised too.

Um, please give specific examples to clarify your crass over-generalizations...

BTW, you can turn off the Chomsky and Said cliches...

You're not bright enough to pull them off with any credibility...

Those two candidates wanted withdrawal from those countries and Paul wanted Iran to be a full trading partner. At the least it would soften their attitude towards the US and whether or not it changes Iran, it would atleast cease to be a threat to the US, if it ever was. No more fake, manufactured wars, is that good enough a reason?

Right! So, they made a few utterances on the campaign trail which gives them the mantle of credibility on this issue?

Obama wants the US to withdraw from Iraq too and we are beginning. But perhaps you should actually read how complicated it is? Incidentally, who gave Iran the right to be in Iraq? Who gave them the right to hold a gun (literally and figuratively) to the heads of Lebanese by supporting a militia-political party in Hezbollah that flouts every agreement there to disarm, when every other former militia faction has?

[Nickdfresh]

[COLOR="DarkRed"]Their crimes don't come anywhere near that of the global empire and saying so is highly absurd.

I didn't mention any "crimes."

BTW, how have these said "crimes" effected you?

Whether the name taliban was used or no makes no big difference.

Actually it does. because there were various factions of the anti-Soviet resistance from Royalists to secular modernists to Islamic simpletons. The latter were largely supported by Saudi Arabia who funneled huge sums to them...

BTW, please fuck yourself with your "crimes" statement. They did assist the flying of our aircraft into our skyscrapers...

The US is no longer interfering? And they're all mindless fanatics after power? Lord forbid anyone feels any anger over having their leaders toppled, dicatators installed and in seeing their neighbours in Palestine being killed by American planes. I'm not Arab or Muslim but I still loathe the US for it.

Could you please learn to use the quote function? It's not hard...

Right! Good thing they replaced the US-backed torture-cunt Shah with Islamic torture-cunts worried about who's wearing a bhurka and who's not...

Progress!!!

Not even close. I was talking about the Iranian people, but in being anti-american I think they definitely see eye to eye with the establishment.

LMFAO!! Yeah, unfortunately that is contradicted by the huge popularity of Western culture in their nation, and a gov't that largely looks the other way as long as it is kept private...

]What's this pretentious bullshit?[

"I know you are, but what am I..."

[MUSICMANN]

Oh right, MUZAKboy! You're a better American than everyone else because you vote for Republicans (that act like they hate the actual American middle class) and have never served in the military and have done nothing but make sycophantic statements for one of the biggest retards this nation ever had as pResident...

Please fuck yourself...

No, i'm no better than anyone else, but atleast i see things the way they are. You must be living on the moon though, to believe some of the crazy shit you and a few others are saying.

[Andy Taylor]

You failed to provide specifics nor any clarification showing you have no idea what in the crickey-fuck you are talking about other than the general, gratuitous assertions of typical knee-jerk(off) anti-American Euro-wanker cliche...

The specifics are over various discussions we've had in the past and the one prior to this (Baxter thread) you never came back to.


I know, everything is all our fault. Just like Northern Ireland is all your fault, and Irish "freedom fighters" should blame you for all their ills. So if a bomb goes off in Glasgow, or London, it's really your fault. Right? It's not just the US. It is YOUR nation too, pugsley. Apparently, you know fuckall about the specific issues. And no matter what any US president does, it's not good enough.

I do blame Britain for the above and there's enough evidence to doubt the official version of the London bombings. It's not my nation btw. I live here but I'm Indian.

Um, please give specific examples to clarify your crass over-generalizations...

BTW, you can turn off the Chomsky and Said cliches...

You're not bright enough to pull them off with any credibility...


Cliches they may be but it sure beats the near mainstream propaganda you're spewing. The current wars may all be started by Bush but the libs are very vocal now about who has to be attacked and the op eds have always spoken of bringing 'peace and democracy' to the mid east. It's only when they breed a dictator of Saddam's stature that they repent for awhile but then they start the same strategy all over again.

Right! So, they made a few utterances on the campaign trail which gives them the mantle of credibility on this issue?

Obama wants the US to withdraw from Iraq too and we are beginning. But perhaps you should actually read how complicated it is? Incidentally, who gave Iran the right to be in Iraq? Who gave them the right to hold a gun (literally and figuratively) to the heads of Lebanese by supporting a militia-political party in Hezbollah that flouts every agreement there to disarm, when every other former militia faction has?

I'm sure it is complicated, but is Obama learning from any of this? No, he continues the same bombing campaign over Afghanistan and now Pakistan. Oh, this time it's going to be different.

I would think it would be completely foolish of Hezbollah to disarm. Israel can find a pretext if it wants to bomb Lebanon but ultimately Hezbollah are the only ones who could fight a war against the Israeli's.

[Andy Taylor]

[QUOTE=Nickdfresh;1334498]I didn't mention any "crimes."

BTW, how have these said "crimes" effected you?

It hasn't directly. I'm just a bleeding heart.



Actually it does. because there were various factions of the anti-Soviet resistance from Royalists to secular modernists to Islamic simpletons. The latter were largely supported by Saudi Arabia who funneled huge sums to them...

BTW, please fuck yourself with your "crimes" statement. They did assist the flying of our aircraft into our skyscrapers...


They? We were talking about Iranian clerics, not the taliban there.



Could you please learn to use the quote function? It's not hard...

It takes up more time, this suits me better.

Right! Good thing they replaced the US-backed torture-cunt Shah with Islamic torture-cunts worried about who's wearing a bhurka and who's not...

Progress!!!

Result largely provoked by US meddling.

LMFAO!! Yeah, unfortunately that is contradicted by the huge popularity of Western culture in their nation, and a gov't that largely looks the other way as long as it is kept private...



What an ignorant statement. So what? I love US culture and have plenty of respect for the music which is far more interesting than anything out of Europe. I'm a huge Springsteen fan. I even have Hagar and Nugent albums. Means little.

[MUSICMANN]

No, but Reagan invited the mujahideen (taliban) over for tea. He compared them to the founding fathers.

They're fanatical because of your countries interference in their politics. Everyone outside the US should just be indifferent to this and just gratefully accept all that they're given by the US shouldn't they? Each time their liberty and pride is trampled upon? Are you able to look at these issues from even a slightly non-American perspective?

What a dumbass. You think we were worried or even cared about the Taliban before we found out they were harboring Al Qaida, even though we backed Afganistan with their war with Russia.

If you don't know, America is a democracy and has always stepped up to help other countries that are friends. Iran's leaders are fanatical and want to destroy Israel. This isn't America trying to impose it's beliefs. It's America looking out for one of it's allies, that already has the same beliefs, and what America has done in every modern war we have fought in.

You think America should just let Iran become nuclear and let them attack Israel. I guess you think we shouldn't help out South Korea against the North either.

The biggest problem with you liberal pukes, is you want to turn the USA into a pussy France wannabe country. We are not France or Switzerland for that matter.

You guys just don't see things the way they are. You sit back in your world full of pink bunnies and rainbows with your olive branch waiving. I think if you go back and do your research. America right before Pearl Harbor were thought of as rich weak playboys by the Japanese. We even reached out with an olive branch only to have it shoved up our asses and then attacked.

So don't come here saying America is wrong for standing up to these rogue countries and helping out our allies. In the past we may have been fighting on the same side with them, hell we even helped put some of those lunatics in power.

Still doesn't change the fact that they went rogue, abused their people and want to cause chaos and destruction throughout world.

[Nickdfresh]

[COLOR="Red"]The specifics are over various discussions we've had in the past and the one prior to this (Baxter thread) you never came back to.

No, there are no specifics. Just generalizations that seem ever-morphing...

]I do blame Britain for the above and there's enough evidence to doubt the official version of the London bombings. It's not my nation btw. I live here but I'm Indian.

Oh, so Kashmir is your fault? So were the Bombay attacks then...

BTW, are you deliberately coloring red just to be an asshole? That's what Elvis does when he's being spanked...

Cliches they may be but it sure beats the near mainstream propaganda you're spewing.

Oh, okay. Anyone whose opinion you disagree with is a "mainstreamer" now...

The current wars may all be started by Bush but the libs are very vocal now about who has to be attacked and the op eds have always spoken of bringing 'peace and democracy' to the mid east. It's only when they breed a dictator of Saddam's stature that they repent for awhile but then they start the same strategy all over again.

You see, this is where your bullshit contradictions fall apart. On the one had, us "bleeding heart" liberals are evil for wanting to spread democracy and self-determination. Geez, what a horrible things those are...

But yet, you criticize when supported a dictator cunt in Iran up until 1979, one that was the sovereign, internationally recognized gov't. So, which is evil and which is good? The truth is that the US has rarely really tried to "democratize" anywhere and supported whatever dominant political hegemony would support us back...

Incidentally, ironically the NeoCon fantasy of democracy-spreading at the point of a gun has its actual roots in leftist, Trotskyist revolutionary thought...

I'm sure it is complicated, but is Obama learning from any of this? No, he continues the same bombing campaign over Afghanistan and now Pakistan. Oh, this time it's going to be different.

Actually he is intensifying the bombing in the coming months I think....

BTW, your Indian gov't also supports the Northern Alliance which became the ineffectual Kabul city gov't we have now - and did so long before we did. Basically it was to piss off the Pakis you hate so much...BTW, great job at constantly invading them and bringing "democracy" to Bangladesh...

I think he is learning, as the Surge has at least temporarily largely pacified Iraq, and I suspect that there will eventually be a two pronged counterinsurgency campaign that in no small part will include negotiations with certain factions within the Taliban...

I would think it would be completely foolish of Hezbollah to disarm. Israel can find a pretext if it wants to bomb Lebanon but ultimately Hezbollah are the only ones who could fight a war against the Israeli's.

Of course. Why shouldn't they be the only extra-governmental paramilitary faction that effectively bullies and coerces the rest of the nation trying to become a representational democracy with a very fragile, diverse ethnic make-up. I mean, it's not like we'd expect the Lebanese national Army to guard the territorial integrity. But then, that would take the fun out of the Hezbollanese acting like they should be able to help provoke wars and randomly fire missiles into Israel. But of course, you failed to answer why the Iranians (and Syrians) should meddle in Lebanon anymore than the Israelis should meddle in the Territories...

And you can tell me a lot of things. But please don't try to sell me that the Arab and Farsi states give much of a fuck about the Palestinians. They just use them for lip service and distraction and piss on them like the Israelis do, and always have. It's sort of a great way to deflect their gov'ts basic incompetence and lack of real social mobility and pin all the blame on the 'evil-Jews'...

[Nickdfresh]

It hasn't directly. I'm just a bleeding heart.

You're a hypocrite. Because you live off the very post-colonial society whose political system and policies you pretend to despise...

They? We were talking about Iranian clerics, not the taliban there.

Sorry, I get cuntfused because it all seems to flow into one giant chamber pot...

It takes up more time, this suits me better.

It makes you a dick, because you hate it when I pick apart your arguments...

]Result largely provoked by US meddling.

There are a lot of reasons. In fact, you could also make the argument that it was a lack of US-meddling under Carter, as he sought to rollback US covert operations and espionage in favor of new technology and a kinder and gentler emphasis on IMINT satellite tech so we could keep our hands cleaner...

Unfortunately, the Shah and is SAVAK secret police cunts were lying to the US saying "all is well" as they were panicking as things were beginning to spiral out of control...and a spy satellite cannot tell one if students are so radicalized they'll support any asshole against the gov't, or the Army will not fire on rioters on orders from a dictator they no longer support...

You could argue that a more proactive US presence would have forced the Shah to step down sooner and elections might have been called. Or at least we could have evacuated our embassy staff...

What an ignorant statement. So what? I love US culture and have plenty of respect for the music which is far more interesting than anything out of Europe. I'm a huge Springsteen fan. I even have Hagar and Nugent albums. Means little.

Well, what system allowed for said culture? The democratic notion of freedom of speech. The fact remains that the Iranian masses are fed up and students launched protests that were brutally put down by the Iranian security forces. And continual polling suggests that they look more towards the West for their political future than the monkeys in charge...

[LoungeMachine]

If you don't know, America is a democracy and has always stepped up to help other countries that are friends.


.

No, moron, we're a Republic.

A democracy would mean one man-one vote, and we ELECT representitives who vote on our behalf.

And America has always [your word] stepped up to help other countries that are friends?

Really? You're actually this stupid/naive ?

amazing.

[LoungeMachine]

[here's where he backpeddles, and explains what he "really" meant]

[MUSICMANN]

No, moron, we're a Republic.

A democracy would mean one man-one vote, and we ELECT representitives who vote on our behalf.

And America has always [your word] stepped up to help other countries that are friends?

Really? You're actually this stupid/naive ?

amazing.

Wow, this is news to me. Hmm, America is not a democracy. So i guess when i voted this past election, it didn't count. My one man-one vote. i didn't realize that my represenative made my choice for me on who i wanted to vote for president.

As for, The USA not helping their allies, let me see. I do believe that we have always helped out our friends and allies, when they needed help. So if you can prove that America has never stepped up to help out, please by all means, educate me.