Any thoughts on the new 23 trillion cost of free healthcare?

[Baby's On Fire]

Aspirin was not patented. It was the standardization method that was patented, and the name Aspirin was probably TM. ASA is a natural compound and cannot be patented.

Other producers of ASA have devised their own extraction method, and sell it under different names. Aspirin is not a product, it is a brand name of a product.

Just like you can't patent a vitamin.

[Baby's On Fire]

Sesh, you previously mentioned the fact that aspirin is made from tree bark but is an accepted "establishment" medical drug, because it has been proven to work.

True enough, but the question is, if a willow bark extract was discovered today, and proven effective at everything from curing headaches to blood thinning to reducing fever, wouldn't it be dismissed by the very same people who dismiss natural medicines today?

They dismiss them because they can't patent them and control the supply. This is why big pharma wants to keep marijuana illegal, despite its proven effectiveness in a number of medicinal applications. Because you can't patent a plant. (Though Monsanto is trying to change that, and they're now players in big pharma since they bought Searle a few years back)

From recent family experience, I can tell you that the medical establishment is trying to push patented poisons like Plavix for the exact same things that aspirin is known to handle as well or better, so even though it's a long established medicine, they still hate the fact that it can't be patented (since it comes from a tree and not from a test tube)

Precisely.

Sesh I never said I don't take drugs because pharmaceutical make money off them. I don't take them because they're toxic.

FORD nailed it. Still today, the public doesn't accept that natural turmeric / curcumin has been proven to kill colon cancer. Yet in 10 years time, when some witch doctor at a pharmaceutical company patents a derivative drug of turmeric that does the same thing, suddenly the general public will accept it.

Aspirin is the perfect example.

Human beings cannot improve on Nature. And they never will.

[FORD]

So curry is medicinal too? Great news, I love Thai food!

[Blackflag]

Aspirin was not patented. It was the standardization method that was patented, and the name Aspirin was probably TM. ASA is a natural compound and cannot be patented.

Other producers of ASA have devised their own extraction method, and sell it under different names. Aspirin is not a product, it is a brand name of a product.

Just like you can't patent a vitamin.

Dude, don't be stupid. Aspirin was patented when it came out. Try and split hairs between the compound and the name...whatever. The bottom line is - if you wanted to buy an aspirin, you had to buy from the company that held the patent. I love how everybody's a knowitall on this forum.

[Baby's On Fire]

Read my post again, or get your interpreter to do it.

Aspirin is a brand name for ASA. ASA was NEVER patented and can never be patented.

[Baby's On Fire]

I can't believe I'm wasting my time with you on this, but here is one example. Notice how the patent description identifies it is a method of producing ASA solutions....not a patent on ASA itself:

US Patent 6306843 - Method for producing stable acetylsalicylic acid solutions. US Patent Issued on October 23, 2001. Estimated Patent Expiration Date: ...
Method for producing stable acetylsalicylic acid solutions - US Patent 6306843 Claims - Similar

[LoungeMachine]

Oh, Jesus H..... GOOGLE/CUT/PASTE


By Mary Bellis

Aspirin or acetylsalicylic acid, is a derivative of salicylic acid that is a mild, nonnarcotic analgesic useful in the relief of headache and muscle and joint aches. The drug works by inhibiting the production of prostaglandins, body chemicals that are necessary for blood clotting and which also sensitize nerve endings to pain.

The father of modern medicine was Hippocrates, who lived sometime between 460 B.C and 377 B.C. Hippocrates was left historical records of pain relief treatments, including the use of powder made from the bark and leaves of the willow tree to help heal headaches, pains and fevers.

By 1829, scientists discovered that it was the compound called salicin in willow plants which gave you the pain relief.

According to "From A Miracle Drug" written by Sophie Jourdier for the Royal Society of Chemistry: "It was not long before the active ingredient in willow bark was isolated; in 1828, Johann Buchner, professor of pharmacy at the University of Munich, isolated a tiny amount of bitter tasting yellow, needle-like crystals, which he called salicin. Two Italians, Brugnatelli and Fontana, had in fact already obtained salicin in 1826, but in a highly impure form. By 1829, [French chemist] Henri Leroux had improved the extraction procedure to obtain about 30g from 1.5kg of bark. In 1838, Raffaele Piria [an Italian chemist] then working at the Sorbonne in Paris, split salicin into a sugar and an aromatic component (salicylaldehyde) and converted the latter, by hydrolysis and oxidation, to an acid of crystallised colourless needles, which he named salicylic acid."

Henri Leroux had extracted salicin, in crystalline form for the first time, and Raffaele Piria succeeded in obtaining the salicylic acid in its pure state.

The problem was that salicylic acid was tough on stomachs and a means of 'buffering' the compound was searched for. The first person to do so was a French chemist named Charles Frederic Gerhardt. In 1853, Gerhardt neutralized salicylic acid by buffering it with sodium (sodium salicylate) and acetyl chloride, creating acetylsalicylic acid. Gerhardt's product worked but he had no desire to market it and abandoned his discovery.



In 1899, a German chemist named Felix Hoffmann, who worked for a German company called Bayer, rediscovered Gerhardt's formula. Felix Hoffmann made some of the formula and gave it to his father who was suffering from the pain of arthritis. With good results, Felix Hoffmann then convinced Bayer to market the new wonder drug. Aspirin was patented on February 27, 1900.

The folks at Bayer came up with the name Aspirin, it comes from the 'A" in acetyl chloride, the "spir" in spiraea ulmaria (the plant they derived the salicylic acid from) and the 'in' was a then familiar name ending for medicines.

Aspirin was first sold as a powder. In 1915, the first Aspirin tablets were made. Interestingly, Aspirin ® and Heroin ® were once trademarks belonging to Bayer. After Germany lost World War I, Bayer was forced to give up both trademarks as part of the Treaty of Versailles in 1919.

History of Aspirin

[Blackflag]

"the United States disagreed, granting a patent to Hoffman and the Bayer Co. on Feb. 27, 1900 (Patent No. 644,077). This gave Bayer a monopoly from 1900 to 1917,"

Inventor of the Week: Archive

[Dolemite!]

Sesh, I do believe today you are talking out of your ass.

I take issue with "today."

It's best to avoid medicine if possible. This was up somewhere today, doctors were saying tamiflu can be worse than the flu and was unneccessary for something that passes in a few days.

[Baby's On Fire]

ASPIRIN was patented. Not ASA. They are not the same thing.

Aspirin is product they named from their extraction method. Read it again:

The problem was that salicylic acid was tough on stomachs and a means of 'buffering' the compound was searched for. The first person to do so was a French chemist named Charles Frederic Gerhardt. In 1853, Gerhardt neutralized salicylic acid by buffering it with sodium (sodium salicylate) and acetyl chloride, creating acetylsalicylic acid. Gerhardt's product worked but he had no desire to market it and abandoned his discovery.

In 1899, a German chemist named Felix Hoffmann, who worked for a German company called Bayer, rediscovered Gerhardt's formula. Felix Hoffmann made some of the formula and gave it to his father who was suffering from the pain of arthritis. With good results, Felix Hoffmann then convinced Bayer to market the new wonder drug. Aspirin was patented on February 27, 1900.


There are other brands of ASA. Aspirin is one of them.

[Blackflag]

Look you ignorant slut... That was the only way to extract it at the time! So if you wanted to buy Aspirin, or ASA - or whatever the fuck you want to call it - you had to buy it from Bayer. Unless you could invent another way of extracting the compound, you weren't going to make it. Because only Bayer could make it.

Get it yet? In 1900, there was one brand on the shelf: Bayer. They had the patent on the one way known to man to make the fucking compound, moron.

[Baby's On Fire]

I take issue with "today."

It's best to avoid medicine if possible. This was up somewhere today, doctors were saying tamiflu can be worse than the flu and was unneccessary for something that passes in a few days.

Sesh's posts are usually brilliant. Maybe today he took too much medicine.

But you're right...even the ancient Greeks knew it "Let food be thy medicine".

Pills don't cure anything, they simply mask the symptoms.

[standin]

I'll bet you the drug industry would try and squash that insurance company.

Here is a single example but a great example of the pharmaceutical indsutry KNOWING that natural compounds can prevent disease, and they are trying to not only stop it's use, but is trying to force the FDA to claim it is a drug, even though it is an entirely natural compound.

Pyridoxamine is an entirely natural compound occuring in food. Anyone can buy it as a supplement, just like you can vitamin C for example. (You can lresearch pyridoxamine if you don't believ it).

Now here is an excerpt of an article about the drug industry trying to force the FDA to claim it is a drug, even thoguh the FDA's own rules already agree it is NOT a drug and cannot be classified a drug under law....


The FDA’s Position
Kidney disease causes almost 500,000 Americans to require dialysis or a transplant.22 Diabetes is the leading cause of end-stage kidney disease.23 With today’s epidemic of type 2 diabetes, the market for a drug that protects against diabetic complications is huge.

Based on scientific data documenting its remarkable biologic effects, a drug company paid for studies to prove the efficacy of pyridoxamine in protecting against diabetic complications.

One of these studies showed that pyridoxamine slowed the rate of rise of a marker of kidney failure (creatinine) by 68% and improved certain parameters of kidney function in humans.24 This company spent about $100 million funding various pyridoxamine studies before it ran out of money.25 The FDA wants to protect pharmaceutical financial interests, even if pyridoxamine is never approved as a new drug. According to the FDA, pyridoxamine cannot be marketed as a dietary supplement because:

“pyridoxamine is authorized for investigation as a new drug for which substantial clinical investigations have been conducted and their existence made public…”21

The FDA’s twisted position is that if vitamin companies can offer low-cost pyridoxamine supplements, then there is no incentive for a drug company to invest hundreds of millions of dollars getting it approved as a prescription drug. Said differently, to protect the financial interests of a pharmaceutical company, the FDA is willing to deny every health-conscious American access to the life-saving benefits of pyridoxamine, which include preventing the very disease the drug company is seeking to have pyridoxamine approved to treat!

This is just a false statement. Pharmaceuticals do provide vitamins.
I take prescription folic acid and can buy it over the counter. Also multi-vitamins are available in prescription and over the counter.

I do understand what you are trying to say about taking a natural substance and creating a synthetic one . And I guess that really depends, would I want a synthetic derivative of a medicine if the natural product was rare, endangered or dangerous to obtain. Yes, I would rather the synthetic.

I would also rather get my vitamins through prescription BECAUSE of the higher regulated quality.

I will say, that the pharmaceutical companies have ethical issues if not corruption issues. I would compare it to the black mold seen after a flood of dirty water of a whole community. Some structures have to be condemned, some just stripped , others just cleaned with bleach.

The only question asked of me from doctors in communities that do not think of cost was, how did you survive infancy and childhood. But until doctors are allowed to PRACTICE medicine again, learned PRACTICES are not going to be available.

BTW, when you speak of much diabetes and much of colon cancer, these are brought on my lifestyles. That if people were going to the doctors on a regular basis, the doctor would give a prescription of lifestyle change*, and that does not come in a pill.
*And sometimes that would be find a better food source with higher nutrition unlike what we get in stores today



On a side note, one day structural engineering DNA and the genome can correct many genetic related illness or birth defects.

[Baby's On Fire]

Look you ignorant slut... That was the only way to extract it at the time! So if you wanted to buy Aspirin, or ASA - or whatever the fuck you want to call it - you had to buy it from Bayer. Unless you could invent another way of extracting the compound, you weren't going to make it. Because only Bayer could make it.

Get it yet? In 1900, there was one brand on the shelf: Bayer. They had the patent on the one way known to man to make the fucking compound, moron.

Exactly ONE BRAND.

A brand is not the same thing as a compound. That's like saying when vitamin C in a supplement form first came out, that it was patented. Maybe the extraction method was patented, but not the vitamin C itself.

They are not the same thing. Somebody else can come along with a different extraction method, and call it something else so they can sell it. That doesn't mean the vitamin C is patented.

[Blackflag]

Exactly ONE BRAND.

It's a distinction without a difference, asswipe. One "brand." One company. One manufacturer. Only one "entity" could produce the fucking shit. It's irrelevant what label you put on the fucking bottle, you ignorant fucking whore. If you wanted ASA in 1900, you bought it from that German company, because they were the only ones that could manufacture it. You fucking buttpirate.