Court Hears Second Amendment Debate On City Ban

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  • BigBadBrian
    TOASTMASTER GENERAL
    • Jan 2004
    • 10625

    Court Hears Second Amendment Debate On City Ban

    Court Hears Second Amendment Debate On City Ban
    Daley Defends Chicago's Gun Laws As Prohibition Comes Under ChallengeWASHINGTON (CBS)


    As they hear arguments in a case to against Chicago's nearly 30-year-old handgun ban, the U.S. Supreme Court appears willing to say that the Constitution's right to possess guns limits state and local regulation of firearms.

    But the justices also suggested that some gun control measures might not be affected.

    The court heard arguments Tuesday in McDonald v. Chicago, a case that challenges handgun bans in the City of Chicago and in Oak Park. The suit also asks the high court to extend to state and local jurisdictions the sweep of its 2008 decision in the District of Columbia v. Heller case, which struck down a gun ban in the federal enclave of Washington, D.C.

    The biggest questions before the court seemed to be how, rather than whether, to issue such a ruling and whether some regulation of firearms could survive. On the latter point, Justice Antonin Scalia said the majority opinion he wrote in the 2008 case "said as much."

    In Heller v. D.C., the court ruled that the Second Amendment gives individuals a right to possess guns for self-defense and other purposes, but presently, that decision only applied to federal laws, such as those of Washington, D.C.

    The court has ruled that most of the rest of the Bill of Rights applies to state and local governments.

    The plaintiffs in the case were all present for as their attorneys argue the lawsuit before the Supreme Court.

    The plaintiffs are:
    --Otis McDonald, a retiree who says he wants protection after his Far South Side house has been broken into repeatedly and he has been threatened.
    --David and Colleen Lawson, whose involvement stems from a scare in 2006 when Colleen Lawson was home alone with the flu and three men tried to jimmy open her back door. They ran off when they saw her through a window.
    --Adam Orlov, a businessman who was previously a police officer for four years, and believes that people hurt by the city's handgun ban are those obeying it.

    McDonald said last year that the possibility of confronting an armed would-be victim might make a criminal think twice.

    "We should have, at least, a deterrent, and I think that that will give the would-be robbers, or what have you, something to think about when they get ready to break into a house on an elderly person," McDonald said in September 2009.

    The handgun ban has been on the books for some 28 years.

    Several aldermen were calling for a freeze on handgun registration in the late 1970s, as gun violence in the city skyrocketed. Morton Grove passed a handgun ban in 1981, and soon afterward, Ald. Edward Burke (14th) proposed an ordinance to ban the further sale and registration of handguns in the City of Chicago, the Encyclopedia of Chicago recounts.

    The legislation was approved in 1982, with strong support from Mayor Jane Byrne, and coming just after President Ronald Reagan and Pope John Paul II were wounded by gunfire assassination attempts.

    The ban has been weathering legal challenges ever since it was instituted. But it gained newfound attention after the Heller decision.

    Within days of the Heller vs. D.C. ruling, suburban Wilmette, Morton Grove and Winnetka did away with their handgun bans altogether, and Evanston repealed parts of its ban.

    But in Chicago and Oak Park, the ban remained. A federal judge dismissed lawsuits by the National Rifle Association to overturn the bans, and in June of last year, a three-judge federal appeals court upheld that ruling.

    Mayor Richard M. Daley wants the ban to remain in place. He says local officials need flexibility to decide how best to protect their communities.

    "We have the right for health and safety to pass reasonable laws dealing with the protection and health of the people of the city of Chicago," Daley said.

    He also said the rollback of the city's handgun ban could lead to further erosion of legislation having to do with guns.

    "This is the first time; once you start doing this, you'll start breaking down local laws, county and even state laws – unlawful use of a weapon," Mayor Daley said.

    The mayor is backed by community groups and Chicago's congressional delegation.

    "Many of my friends talk about the fact that they hunt in their state and I will tell them that many of the people who are hunting in Chicago are not hunting wild game -- they are hunting each other," U.S. Rep. Danny Davis (D-Ill.) said.

    Paul McGrath was an aide to Mayor Byrne who helped craft the city's anti-gun legislation. He believes doing away with the gun restrictions would be a bad idea.

    "If our gun control law is struck down, there will be more guns," McGrath said. "Do we want more guns?"

    McDonald, Orlov and the Lawsons are not the only plaintiffs -- the Second Amendment Foundation, an anti-gun control group, and the Illinois State Rifle Association are also named.

    If Chicago's ban is overturned and the city passes another gun law, the National Rifle Association's Todd Vandermyde predicts a flurry of lawsuits against the city.

    "They'd better understand that Supreme Court opinions are not advisory in nature," he said. "They're either going to comply or they're going to find themselves on the long end of a lot of litigation."

    http://http://cbs2chicago.com/local/...2.1530231.html
    “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush
  • sadaist
    TOASTMASTER GENERAL
    • Jul 2004
    • 11625

    #2
    These gun laws just prevent law abiding citizens from having them. If you are a criminal and going to kill, rob, rape, etc... you sure as hell aren't going to register a gun with the government. They will just be stolen or brought in from other places and sold on the black market. The only way to truly ban them is to ban them globally. As long as they are available somewhere, they will be available everywhere. Isn't marijuana illegal? How many of you either currently have or have had a bag? Bans don't work.

    Personally, I don't have a problem with registering my firearms. I don't even mind the fact that I had to get a safety course certificate & take a test for my CA firearms card. Or that I have to own trigger locks for all my guns. But once they remove my right to own them, that's when I have a problem.

    As far as the assault weapon bans in California, I'm still undecided about those to tell the truth. I used to think what the fuck would anyone need one of those powerful weapons for? Then I rented one at a firing range. WOW! That Bushmaster AR-15 was the most awesome thing ever. I can see why people would want one. All we did was shoot targets and it was so much fun.
    “Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings.”

    Comment

    • ELVIS
      Banned
      • Dec 2003
      • 44120

      #3
      Self defense is a right...

      Comment

      • Seshmeister
        ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

        • Oct 2003
        • 35755

        #4
        The Raw Story | More kids killed by guns in US in single year than total Iraq war casualties

        More kids killed by guns in US in single year than total Iraq war casualties



        RAW STORY
        Published: Tuesday June 13, 2006


        A report released today by the Children's Defense Fund (CDF,) and based upon data collected by the Center for Disease Control (CDC) finds that more children and teens died as a result of gun violence in 2003 than American fighting men and women killed in hostile action in the first three years of the Iraq war combined.

        In all, 2,827 kids and teens were killed in the United States during the calendar year that marked the US invasion of Iraq. At last count, the Department of Defense reports 2,497 US soldiers killed in Iraq.

        In addition to that gruesome statistic, other facts detailed in the report about gun violence and America's children:

        -- The rate of firearm deaths among children under age 15 is far higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. "We have many more handguns and much weaker gun laws than any other country," says Harvard Professor David Hemenway, who has worked to develop strategies to combat illegal firearms.

        -- In 2003, 56 preschoolers were killed by firearms, compared to 52 law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty.

        -- More 10- to 19-year-olds die from gunshot wounds than from any other cause except motor vehicle accidents.

        -- Almost 90 percent of the children and teens killed by firearms in 2003 were boys.

        -- Boys ages 15 to 19 are nearly nine times as likely as girls of the same age to be killed by a firearm.

        -- In 2003, there were more than nine times as many suicides by guns among white children and teens as among black children and teens.

        -- The firearm death rate for black males ages 15 to 19 is more than four times that of white males the same age.

        -- The seven states that recorded the most deaths among children and teens by firearms in 2003 were California, Texas, Illinois, New York, Pennsylvania, Florida and North Carolina. The state with the fewest child gun deaths was Hawaii with one.

        The full report can be read at the Children's Defense Fund website.

        Comment

        • Seshmeister
          ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

          • Oct 2003
          • 35755

          #5
          -- In 2003, 56 preschoolers were killed by firearms, compared to 52 law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty.
          Incredible...

          Comment

          • ELVIS
            Banned
            • Dec 2003
            • 44120

            #6
            2003 was a very bad year...

            Comment

            • Seshmeister
              ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

              • Oct 2003
              • 35755

              #7
              In 2006 it had gone up to 63

              Comment

              • sadaist
                TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                • Jul 2004
                • 11625

                #8
                Originally posted by Seshmeister
                The seven states that recorded the most deaths among children and teens by firearms in 2003 were California....

                California has very strict gun laws compared to most other states. Yet ranked top?

                Your source is just a whole lot of anti-gun propaganda. How many deaths/murders were committed by other means? How many of the gun deaths were caused by a registered gun vs. a gun that was possessed illegally? How many of these deaths were caused by criminals that the justice system failed to keep locked up on other charges?

                Anyone that has been convicted of a felony is unable to own a gun...ever. Does anyone honestly believe that law is being followed? Doubtful. If people are willing to commit murder, the biggest crime of all, they aren't going to flinch when it comes to owning a gun illegally.

                I find it funny that anti-gun people use all of these crime statistics to justify banning all guns. To me it just reinforces the fact that I want a gun for self protection.

                FYI - Mexico is extremely strict...NO GUNS ALLOWED...period...for anyone. Just look at the amount of murders happening there right now just in the border towns.
                “Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings.”

                Comment

                • ELVIS
                  Banned
                  • Dec 2003
                  • 44120

                  #9
                  How can you ban criminals from having illegal guns ???

                  Comment

                  • knuckleboner
                    Crazy Ass Mofo
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 2927

                    #10
                    Originally posted by ELVIS
                    How can you ban criminals from having illegal guns ???
                    every illegal gun a criminal uses was at one point in time legal. the more legal guns, the more potential illegal guns.

                    Comment

                    • Dr. Love
                      ROTH ARMY SUPREME
                      • Jan 2004
                      • 7833

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Seshmeister
                      In 2006 it had gone up to 63
                      2006 was a very bad year...
                      I've got the cure you're thinkin' of.

                      http://i.imgur.com/jBw4fCu.gif

                      Comment

                      • sadaist
                        TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                        • Jul 2004
                        • 11625

                        #12
                        Originally posted by knuckleboner
                        the more legal guns, the more potential illegal guns.

                        The more penises, the more potential for rapes.
                        “Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings.”

                        Comment

                        • Nitro Express
                          DIAMOND STATUS
                          • Aug 2004
                          • 32942

                          #13
                          Gun prohibition laws are like locks. They keep the honest people out. Felons obtain guns all the time and use them. They are available on the black market or they steal them. What probably is the most effective gun crime deterrent is severe punishment. How about sending those who use a firearm in a crime to an Alaskan gulag with day after day full of hard labor? We could make the housing out of ice and put barbed wire around it all.
                          No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                          Comment

                          • Blackflag
                            Banned
                            • Apr 2006
                            • 3406

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Nitro Express
                            How about sending those who use a firearm in a crime to an Alaskan gulag with day after day full of hard labor?


                            Comment

                            • sadaist
                              TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                              • Jul 2004
                              • 11625

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Nitro Express
                              What probably is the most effective gun crime deterrent is severe punishment.

                              Another problem is the justice system. Prison is a badge of honor for a lot of criminals. And when they are there, they get TV, 3 meals, medical/dental, Internet, etc... Prison is supposed to suck. Bring the hammer down on violent offenders and quit wasting the cell space on pot heads.
                              “Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings.”

                              Comment

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