ObamaCare at Supreme Court hearing

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • FORD
    ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

    • Jan 2004
    • 59614

    #61
    From Wikipedia....

    Swiss are required to purchase basic health insurance, which covers a range of treatments detailed in the Federal Act. It is therefore the same throughout the country and avoids double standards in healthcare. Insurers are required to offer this basic insurance to everyone, regardless of age or medical condition. They are not allowed to make a profit off this basic insurance, but can on supplemental plans.

    Regulations also restrict the allowable policies and profits that a private insurer may offer, as noted by healthcare economics scholar Uwe Reinhardt in a review in JAMA. Reinhardt writes that,

    "To compete in the market for compulsory health insurance, a Swiss health insurer must be registered with the Swiss Federal Office of Public Health, which regulates health insurance under the 1994 statute. The insurers were not allowed to earn profits from the mandated benefit package, although they have always been able to profit from the sale of actuarially priced supplementary benefits (mainly superior amenities).

    Regulations require "a 25-year-old and an 80-year-old individual pay a given insurer the same premium for the same type of policy..Overall, then, the Swiss health system is a variant of the highly government-regulated social insurance systems of Europe..that rely on ostensibly private, nonprofit health insurers that also are subject to uniform fee schedules and myriad government regulations."
    In light of that info, here's an interesting graph (also from the Wikipedia page)



    Notice how even with these reasonable regulations, the Swiss system (while obviously far better a value than the US clusterfuck) is somewhat more expensive than the single-payer systems in the other countries.

    Bottom line is that health care should not be a profitable industry. It should be about preventing illness whenever possible, curing it when it is not, and treating it when a cure is impossible.
    Eat Us And Smile

    Cenk For America 2024!!

    Justice Democrats


    "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

    Comment

    • Etienne
      Commando
      • Aug 2010
      • 1196

      #62
      Originally posted by kwame k
      How would you rate your health care system overall, Etienne?
      I'm very pleased like it is right now.

      There are talks about to take the insurance companies from the free market and build one big monolith company (non-free market).

      But I disagree, I'm not a communist.

      Again, I'm happy like it is.

      Comment

      • Etienne
        Commando
        • Aug 2010
        • 1196

        #63
        Originally posted by Nitro Express
        ... Switzerland is a small rich country that doesn't have the immigration issues we do because you can only become a citizen of Switzerland if both your parents are citizens. That eliminates a ton of problems right there.
        As far as I know only one of your parents must be swiss citizen.

        Oh, we do have immigration issues, believe me. Naturalization is always a hot topic.

        Comment

        • ELVIS
          Banned
          • Dec 2003
          • 44120

          #64
          Originally posted by FORD
          Bottom line is that health care should not be a profitable industry. It should be about preventing illness whenever possible, curing it when it is not, and treating it when a cure is impossible.
          That's never going to happen...

          Preventing illness is a personal choice and responsibility that is based on lifestyle...

          There is no such thing as "healthcare" that prevents illness...

          Also there is rarely a cure for any illness beyond again, personal choice and responsibility...

          Treatment is the only thing you will ever get from any sick care system whether the government is involved or not...


          And the only thing the federal government sees is the dollar signs...


          Comment

          • Etienne
            Commando
            • Aug 2010
            • 1196

            #65
            Originally posted by ELVIS
            I don't even have a problem with some sort of basic mandatory insurance...

            My argument is that it's not a federal issue, but a state issue...

            Power needs to be kept away from the big federal burearcrats...
            But you think every US citizen should have a basic mandatory insurance?

            Originally posted by ELVIS
            ...
            Treatment is the only thing you will ever get from any sick care system whether the government is involved or not...
            ...
            And that would be more than enough. Problem solved.

            Comment

            • Nitro Express
              DIAMOND STATUS
              • Aug 2004
              • 32942

              #66
              In the US healthcare was never a issue until 1990 when the prices started skyrocketing. What happened is the stocks corporations issued were being purchased by funds. We didn't have mutual funds until the 1970's. Before that there were individual stock holders and they voted by proxy on company issues. Once funds owned the majority of the stocks, financial institutions took over the boards of these corporations instead of individual stock holders. Then the corruption games began. We saw CEO pay skyrocket. We saw golden parachutes. We saw people who ruined companies have no problem finding another corporate CEO job. Prices in healthcare and the prices of drugs began to sky rocket during this time as well.

              Where I grew up we had a county hospital. If you were a citizen of the country they admitted you and you had reasonable hospital costs. If you couldn't pay they charged the others who could. Since it was a decent community that wasn't really abused. My dad was on the hospital board and the system worked really well. There was no need for big government healthcare because the local system was working well.

              Most of the hospitals were either ran by the county or a church. My mom was a nurse and she used to work at a catholic hospital. When I was a student in college I had full medical coverage for $35 a semester. When I got married and we had our first child, my work provided our healthcare and the delivery cost me nothing. Healthcare was not a problem until recently.
              Last edited by Nitro Express; 03-28-2012, 09:45 PM.
              No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

              Comment

              • IceCreamBlondie
                Head Fluffer
                • Dec 2008
                • 378

                #67
                Originally posted by Nitro Express
                In the US healthcare was never a issue until 1990 when the prices started skyrocketing. What happened is the stocks corporations issued were being purchased by funds. We didn't have mutual funds until the 1970's. Before that there were individual stock holders and they voted by proxy on company issues. Once funds owned the majority of the stocks, financial institutions took over the boards of these corporations instead of individual stock holders. Then the corruption games began. We saw CEO pay skyrocket. We saw golden parachutes. We saw people who ruined companies have no problem finding another corporate CEO job. Prices in healthcare and the prices of drugs began to sky rocket during this time as well.

                Where I grew up we had a county hospital. If you were a citizen of the country they admitted you and you had reasonable hospital costs. If you couldn't pay they charged the others who could. Since it was a decent community that wasn't really abused. My dad was on the hospital board and the system worked really well. There was no need for big government healthcare because the local system was working well.

                Most of the hospitals were either ran by the county or a church. My mom was a nurse and she used to work at a catholic hospital. When I was a student in college I had full medical coverage for $35 a semester. When I got married and we had our first child, my work provided our healthcare and the delivery cost me nothing. Healthcare was not a problem until recently.

                Thanks for the history lesson, Nitro.... I didn't realize this. Much appreciated.
                I'm Stayin' Frosty!

                Comment

                • FORD
                  ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                  • Jan 2004
                  • 59614

                  #68
                  Originally posted by Nitro Express
                  In the US healthcare was never a issue until 1990 when the prices started skyrocketing. What happened is the stocks corporations issued were being purchased by funds. We didn't have mutual funds until the 1970's. Before that there were individual stock holders and they voted by proxy on company issues. Once funds owned the majority of the stocks, financial institutions took over the boards of these corporations instead of individual stock holders. Then the corruption games began. We saw CEO pay skyrocket. We saw golden parachutes. We saw people who ruined companies have no problem finding another corporate CEO job. Prices in healthcare and the prices of drugs began to sky rocket during this time as well.
                  And this is exactly why we need a single payer system. The profit motive must be removed from the equation completely. Theoretically, we could go with the Swiss model, but that would require Congress to regulate the insurance companies, which would be the polar opposite of anything they have done since 1980.

                  Much easier to open Medicare to everyone, kill the insurance industry altogether. The Norquist bathtub cult would call it a "tax increase", but it's better than paying "taxes" to pig billionaire CEOs, and even after that, still having to fight their attempts to dodge paying your claims.
                  Eat Us And Smile

                  Cenk For America 2024!!

                  Justice Democrats


                  "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                  Comment

                  • Nitro Express
                    DIAMOND STATUS
                    • Aug 2004
                    • 32942

                    #69
                    It's not going to happen with all the crooks in power. It's gotten to where they are just freezing peoples accounts and stealing their money. Look at what happened at MF Global and nothing has been done. That's because a big financial backer of Obama did the stealing. The government isn't protecting our investments why should they care about our health? Until we return to a rule of law we can't do anything. The politicians are getting filthy rich on lobby money and insider trading. The Justice Department sells weapons to drug lords and does nothing about crimes against us citizens while the banks are stealing investors accounts. We have no functioning financial system because you can't trust it because it's ran by crooks in bed with the regulators. It's like saying you want Charles Manson in charge of your health care.
                    No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                    Comment

                    • ELVIS
                      Banned
                      • Dec 2003
                      • 44120

                      #70
                      Obamacare combined with the Patriot Act and TSA means complete control and manipulation of the people...

                      It's worse than putting Charles Manson in control...

                      It's more like Hitler...


                      Comment

                      • Jagermeister
                        Full Member Status

                        • Apr 2010
                        • 4510

                        #71
                        Originally posted by FORD
                        And this is exactly why we need a single payer system. The profit motive must be removed from the equation completely. Theoretically, we could go with the Swiss model, but that would require Congress to regulate the insurance companies, which would be the polar opposite of anything they have done since 1980.

                        Much easier to open Medicare to everyone, kill the insurance industry altogether. The Norquist bathtub cult would call it a "tax increase", but it's better than paying "taxes" to pig billionaire CEOs, and even after that, still having to fight their attempts to dodge paying your claims.
                        How would that work exactly?

                        I am all for fixing the problem. Health insurance is a racket. I don't know anyone anymore who when asked about there health insurance says it's great.

                        Comment

                        • ELVIS
                          Banned
                          • Dec 2003
                          • 44120

                          #72
                          How can you say open medicare to everyone when the politicians keep telling us medicare will be bankrupt in so many years...

                          They steal the money to start illegal wars !!

                          Comment

                          • FORD
                            ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                            • Jan 2004
                            • 59614

                            #73
                            Originally posted by ELVIS
                            How can you say open medicare to everyone when the politicians keep telling us medicare will be bankrupt in so many years...

                            They steal the money to start illegal wars !!
                            Well, stop voting for the BCE then! (And now that Poppy and Jeb have both endorsed the same candidate, it is very obvious that the Kolob dog abuser is officially the BCE candidate for 2012.)

                            Medicare would have a lot more money, obviously, if everyone was paying into it. The size of the "risk pool" is always important with any sort of insurance, and if Medicare became the national single payer system, that would be a risk pool of over 300 million.

                            Your idea of "fearing the federal government and leaving it all up to the states" wouldn't work too well with this idea, because then you would have 50 different pools of various sizes. And how would Wyoming (for example) compare with California when there's a huge difference in population.

                            Federal government as an entity is not the problem. Putting corrupt right wing assholes in charge of it is. But fixing that involves repealing Shittyzens United, smashing every last Diebold machine on the planet, repealing every last destructive deregulation of the last 30 years, and a number of other things that are entirely another discussion from the subject of this thread.
                            Eat Us And Smile

                            Cenk For America 2024!!

                            Justice Democrats


                            "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                            Comment

                            • ELVIS
                              Banned
                              • Dec 2003
                              • 44120

                              #74
                              Originally posted by FORD
                              And how would Wyoming (for example) compare with California when there's a huge difference in population.
                              You're making my argument for me...

                              They shouldn't compare...

                              A one size fits all healthcare system will never be fair and costs will skyrocket...

                              Comment

                              • Nitro Express
                                DIAMOND STATUS
                                • Aug 2004
                                • 32942

                                #75
                                And how would Wyoming (for example) compare with California when there's a huge difference in population.
                                Since Wyoming has the best bond rating in the nation and California has the worst I say we would be able to take care of our little population just fine. It was a big tax and spend government that took the richest state in the country and broke it. California has been horribly mismanaged.

                                Before we even talk about healthcare we have to get the crooks out of government. They are robbing this country blind. Now they are just stealing directly from peoples accounts.
                                No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                                Comment

                                Working...