The Founding Fathers on Religion

[Seshmeister]

I can't prove there are little invisible fairies dancing about your house, you can't categorically prove there are not.

Are you agnostic about the fairies or do you believe that they aren't there?

[jhale667]

Hell, I'm beginning to think we would all be better off if we all called ourselves "agnostics". Truthfully, it's the only honest response.

Believers cannot prove there is a God. Atheists cannot prove there isn't one. Anything beyond that is faith, no matter which direction you go.

Atheists don't have to. The onus of proof falls upon the believer, as they're the ones stating something exists that can't be proven to. Empircal evidence is already (pretty much overwhelmingly) in Atheist's favor...


If believers were honest with themselves, they'd admit, based on the definition of faith - they believe something they can't prove, and that they are suspending logic in insisting that it does - so why do they then insist (and try to legislate) that EVERYONE has to check reason at the door? It's beyond arrogant. "No no, I can't be bothered with your FACTS..."

That's a huge difference between liberals and conservatives...the liberal mindset is that you can basically believe anything you want, but conservatives think you should have to lock-step to THEIR beliefs only, and they have the right to FORCE you to. Again, pretty f*ing arrogant!

[chi-town324]

Very well said J !!

[FORD]

I can't prove there are little invisible fairies dancing about your house, you can't categorically prove there are not.

Are you agnostic about the fairies or do you believe that they aren't there?

That depends. Were they wearing boots??

[hambon4lif]

That's a huge difference between liberals and conservatives...the liberal mindset is that you can basically believe anything you want, but conservatives think you should have to lock-step to THEIR beliefs only, and they have the right to FORCE you to. Again, pretty f*ing arrogant!

Very well said Jay....but it goes even beyond that.

When you do whatever you can to improve the conditions around you, your situation automatically improves, because naturally, there's less pull. That's not just something you learn within the first two weeks of Economics class, it's also common sense.
The conservative mindset apparently seems to be "fuck you, I'm getting all I can, and if I happen to take yours too, and you end up with none, then you're just gonna fuckin' die".

.....not exactly being "your brothers keeper" is it?

They pick and choose parts of religion that are convenient to them, and completely disregard the rest. That's what makes them such pieces of shit....

[hambon4lif]

dupe!

[Guitar Shark]

A bit of a broad brush there, but I understand the sentiment.

[Seshmeister]

Yeah but it's true that almost no one really believes the bible.

If they really thought it was definitely true they wouldn't take any chances. If the Christians thought that you were going to live forever in paradise or be tortured forever in hell you would give away all your money like Jesus said. Who would not take that chance? And if they gave even a remote shit about anyone else they knew they would plead with them to do the same. Maybe the crazy people with the placards that shout the end is nigh at passers by are the only real Christians?

They would also have to give the benefit of the doubt to anyone who murdered people and claimed God told them to.

I guess FORD is on to something with the agnostic thing.

[LoungeMachine]

I describe myself as "Agnostic with Buddhist Tendencies"



No one KNOWS anything, so why not just live your life being kind to others, and accepting people as they are, and respecting all creatures?

My "Christian" friends claim I'm hedging my bets, but so be it.......

[Nitro Express]

I describe myself as "Agnostic with Buddhist Tendencies"



No one KNOWS anything, so why not just live your life being kind to others, and accepting people as they are, and respecting all creatures?

My "Christian" friends claim I'm hedging my bets, but so be it.......

Sounds like a good program to me.

I find Christians a bit paranoid. Also they want someone else to do their work for them. They blame the devil for their mistakes and then expect Jesus to save them. They totally blame someone else and expect someone else to fix their problems for them. No working on enlightenment and paying off karma. If you are lazy and like to blame someone else, become a Christian.

[chi-town324]

How some people feel happy and at peace inside a church, I have always felt just the opposite. I get a very uncomfortable feeling. And I have been to many different ones. Organized religion in general creeps me out.

[FORD]

There's not really a lot of incompatibility between Buddhism and the actual teachings of JC (as opposed to right wing church doctrines that He would hate as much as I do).

Aside from the whole reincarnation thing, there's a lot of the same things there. " Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is pretty much the same as Karma. Or the Wiccan belief that "whatever you do to others is going to come back on you three times", for that matter.

And if you're an atheist and can't relate to the spiritual parts of any of that, it's still a pretty goddamned logical way to live in this world.

[Dr. Love]

Where exactly is "true north" on this compass that is in pedophile priests?

It spins like crazy when they get too close to little boys' southern poles.

[Nickdfresh]

I'm a Pantheist Deist who believes in Me'ist...

[jhale667]

Most "Christians" aren't...and they're unaviodable at mass, unfortunately...

How some people feel happy and at peace inside a church, I have always felt just the opposite. I get a very uncomfortable feeling. And I have been to many different ones. Organized religion in general creeps me out.

I actually dig the symbolism in Catholic Churches, the stations of the cross, stuff like that...I'm a MichaelAngelo (sp) fan. I used to like to go when the place was pretty much closed - quiet, peaceful, almost serene. It's when the place starts filling up with hypocrites I want to run for the exit.

Going to a parochial school, once we got to be 12-13 they started giving us the hard-sell about how they "needed" us to become priests as less and less people were going into the priesthood - almost like a guilt trip. It was creepy. One of the speaker was even doing what's called in sales the "presumptive sell" - we didn't really have a choice in the matter, it was our duty, sign here...no thanks. Plus, once they told me girls were off the table - FUHGEDABOUTIT.