The Founding Fathers on Religion

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  • Seshmeister
    ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

    • Oct 2003
    • 35757

    #31
    Of course, actually reading the thing is how a lot of people end up atheists.

    Comment

    • Nitro Express
      DIAMOND STATUS
      • Aug 2004
      • 32942

      #32
      Mormons didn't exist until 1830. The Catholic Church didn't exist until emperor Constantine founded it. Christ was executed by the roman empire because it was illegal for the Sanhedrin to enact the death penalty. Pontius Pilot put it up for a vote and the Jews said "crucify him!" Pilot washed his hands saying it was not upon him but the Jews. The roman empire allowed religious freedom as long as you worshiped the emperor as a god, paid your taxes, and didn't cause trouble.
      No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

      Comment

      • Seshmeister
        ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

        • Oct 2003
        • 35757

        #33
        Originally posted by BigBadBrian
        Give an example. A person's faith is their moral compass.
        A person's faith is their irrational belief of something to be true without any evidence.

        It's nothing to do with a moral compass. If you have faith that you will be punished for all time by a resurrected sky god and that is the reason you don't kill or steal then that's not a moral compass, that's just a fear of zombies.

        Comment

        • Seshmeister
          ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

          • Oct 2003
          • 35757

          #34
          Originally posted by Nitro Express
          Christ was executed by the roman empire because it was illegal for the Sanhedrin to enact the death penalty. Pontius Pilot put it up for a vote and the Jews said "crucify him!" Pilot washed his hands saying it was not upon him but the Jews.
          According to an uncorroborated novel written from second and third hand camp fire stories.

          Comment

          • Nitro Express
            DIAMOND STATUS
            • Aug 2004
            • 32942

            #35
            Originally posted by Seshmeister
            According to an uncorroborated novel written from second and third hand camp fire stories.
            Basically. There never was a christian church or scripture at the supposed time of Christ. We know Harrod existed and they even found evidence that a man named Pilot was indeed governor of that area at the time. The cities and geography are all still there. All that is missing is actual evidence of Christ because nothing was written down at the time and nothing was organized. So all there is written accounts that came much later.

            Living in Israel I came to realize if the Catholic church didn't build churches over the supposed holy sites they would be built over and become part of the more modern city. They would have commercial or residential buildings on them. There would be nothing for pilgrims to go to in the Jerusalem area. They would be under the foundation of a tower full of apartments or underneath an office building. The Catholic church has kept the legend alive all these years and the protestant thing is nothing more than reformed catholicism.
            Last edited by Nitro Express; 04-11-2012, 11:03 AM.
            No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

            Comment

            • jhale667
              DIAMOND STATUS
              • Aug 2004
              • 20929

              #36
              Originally posted by Seshmeister
              A person's faith is their irrational belief of something to be true without any evidence.

              It's nothing to do with a moral compass. If you have faith that you will be punished for all time by a resurrected sky god and that is the reason you don't kill or steal then that's not a moral compass, that's just a fear of zombies.

              What annoys me is conservatards like Brie who can't keep two disparate ideas in their head have to create a false equivalency between the two (and rail against anyone who - rightfully - disagrees). You can have a moral compass without subscribing to any faith or religious BS - it's not a requirement.
              Originally posted by conmee
              If anyone even thinks about deleting the Muff Thread they are banned.... no questions asked.

              That is all.

              Icon.
              Originally posted by GO-SPURS-GO
              I've seen prominent hypocrite liberal on this site Jhale667


              Originally posted by Isaac R.
              Then it's really true??

              The Muff Thread is really just GONE ???

              OMFG...who in their right mind...???
              Originally posted by eddie78
              I was wrong about you, brother. You're good.

              Comment

              • Seshmeister
                ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

                • Oct 2003
                • 35757

                #37
                Originally posted by Nitro Express
                The cities and geography are all still there.
                Even a lot of that is very dodgy, especially the Old Testament. There is a history of the archaeology being done from a theological front so that when they found some ruins wherever they would give it a suitable name from the bible.

                What is certain is that there is no evidence of Jewish slaves in Egypt or an exodus from there. Again like the Romans we have lots of contemporary written evidence but nothing to back up the bible myths.
                Last edited by Seshmeister; 04-11-2012, 11:04 AM.

                Comment

                • Seshmeister
                  ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

                  • Oct 2003
                  • 35757

                  #38
                  Originally posted by jhale667
                  What annoys me is conservatards like Brie who can't keep two disparate ideas in their head have to create a false equivalency between the two (and rail against anyone who - rightfully - disagrees). You can have a moral compass without subscribing to any faith or religious BS - it's not a requirement.
                  "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

                  Steven Weinberg, quoted in The New York Times, April 20, 1999

                  US physicist (1933 - )

                  Comment

                  • ELVIS
                    Banned
                    • Dec 2003
                    • 44120

                    #39
                    Originally posted by Seshmeister
                    A person's faith is their irrational belief of something to be true without any evidence.

                    It's nothing to do with a moral compass. If you have faith that you will be punished for all time by a resurrected sky god and that is the reason you don't kill or steal then that's not a moral compass, that's just a fear of zombies.
                    You got it all wrong...

                    Comment

                    • ELVIS
                      Banned
                      • Dec 2003
                      • 44120

                      #40
                      Originally posted by jhale667
                      You can have a moral compass without subscribing to any faith or religious BS - it's not a requirement.
                      Right, but that moral compass is instilled in you by your creator...

                      Comment

                      • jhale667
                        DIAMOND STATUS
                        • Aug 2004
                        • 20929

                        #41
                        Originally posted by ELVIS
                        Right, but that moral compass is instilled in you by your creator...
                        Prove it. Oh that's right, you can't!
                        Originally posted by conmee
                        If anyone even thinks about deleting the Muff Thread they are banned.... no questions asked.

                        That is all.

                        Icon.
                        Originally posted by GO-SPURS-GO
                        I've seen prominent hypocrite liberal on this site Jhale667


                        Originally posted by Isaac R.
                        Then it's really true??

                        The Muff Thread is really just GONE ???

                        OMFG...who in their right mind...???
                        Originally posted by eddie78
                        I was wrong about you, brother. You're good.

                        Comment

                        • Seshmeister
                          ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

                          • Oct 2003
                          • 35757

                          #42
                          Originally posted by ELVIS
                          Right, but that moral compass is instilled in you by your creator...
                          Your parents?

                          They are an important part of it but you are also effected by your environment, peers and the cultural context.

                          For example if you had been brought up with the Mayan superstition rather than the current US Christian one, combined with your inherent nature of throwing yourself into religions then it's very likely your moral compass would have been fine with human sacrifices.

                          Comment

                          • LoungeMachine
                            DIAMOND STATUS
                            • Jul 2004
                            • 32576

                            #43
                            Originally posted by ELVIS
                            Right, but that moral compass is instilled in you by your creator...
                            Where exactly is "true north" on this compass that is in pedophile priests?

                            Originally posted by Kristy
                            Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
                            Originally posted by cadaverdog
                            I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

                            Comment

                            • Nickdfresh
                              SUPER MODERATOR

                              • Oct 2004
                              • 49567

                              #44
                              Originally posted by BigBadBrian
                              I'll agree with your second statement, but your first statement uses examples that are completely out of context. I assume your next argument is that the "Founding Fathers" were not Christians, but Deists? Funny thing Deism/Deist - it meant something different to different people 250 years ago. For every quote you used in your first post, I can come up with several countering your point, often from the same person.

                              While I agree that this nation was founded without an establishment of a state religion on purpose, and justifiably so, to say that no Christian or religious concepts or doctrine played a part in the formation of this nation is just ludicrous.

                              The only quotes you're going to "come up with" are ones deeply out-of-context or from stump speeches pandering to the religious masses. Secondly, what was the difference between Deism then and now? There really aren't many self-identified "Diests" anymore...

                              Comment

                              • FORD
                                ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                                • Jan 2004
                                • 59656

                                #45
                                Hell, I'm beginning to think we would all be better off if we all called ourselves "agnostics". Truthfully, it's the only honest response.

                                Believers cannot prove there is a God. Atheists cannot prove there isn't one. Anything beyond that is faith, no matter which direction you go.
                                Eat Us And Smile

                                Cenk For America 2024!!

                                Justice Democrats


                                "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

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