Paterno Out At Penn State

[jhale667]

Yeah that kind of stuff gets under my skin. I was told it might be in poor taste to have up my PSU stuff in my office so it all came down. But then again being a PSU fan I'm different than all other college football fans in the country. I cared about my team too much and it's led to children being raped. That's the narrative I hear.

That's certainly not what I'm saying, you know that.

[ODShowtime]

This isn't about cheering for a team for fucks sake. YOUR SCHOOL PROTECTED A CHILD MOLESTER. I do not have any other clever way of saying that.

The thing you're not grasping is that I don't believe that PSU "protected" a child molester. I believe they were manipulated by an evil mastermind and at worst were a bit incompetent. It's not a black and white issue regardless of whether your simple mind can grasp the nuances. The media has spun it all that way to make money since this started.

It's pretty shitty that all you got out of my posts was that I'm selfishly thinking about my football team instead of a molester and his victims. I'm saying the two are separate issues and shouldn't be intertwined. I'd say the same thing about your team if you were in the same place because I don't like the media and I don't buy their nonsense. The news is run for profit only and this was a BONANZA.

If Michigan, the Lions, the Tigers, any team I have ever cheered for protected A CHILD MOLESTER and allowed them to harm even more children because they were unwilling to act I would not even consider how much it sucks for me because that is "my team". I would mourn for the victims, pray they can somehow move on in some way, and when the time was right I would find another team to cheer for. Some things in life are far more important then your fucking sports team or even the fucked up school you attended.

Regardless of your self-righteous bullshit, you have no idea how you'd react to a situation like this if you found yourself in my shoes. You're already proven you have no empathy. You do have a big mouth though, that's for sure. I've heard thousands of people barking the same hatred that you have over the last few months. You're a dime a dozen and dumb as dirt.

[ODShowtime]

That's certainly not what I'm saying, you know that.

I don't think you've said it, but people have, and they're using it to further their agendas of hatred and destruction and profit generation. They're using it to bully us. To shame us because that makes people feel better about their wretched lives.

It's nice to get a level of understanding from you. You've always been a good dude. I'm sorry if I offended you with my language earlier, but my hatred knows no bounds right now.

[ODShowtime]

Just my two cents here.....

Back in the 1990s, The NCAA attacked the UW Football program over FAR less than this, and devastated it to the point where it still has never fully recovered.

If some illumni donor buying a car for a college QB is worthy of killing a championship football team, then fucking kids up the ass should bring at least that much punishment, if not worse.

Yeah, the Penn State fans didn't cause this shit. I feel for you guys, I really do. But this is such a severely fucked up situation, that the NCAA really needs to come down a Hell of a lot harder on this than they did the Huskies, or USC, or any other team that's been penalized for relatively minor shit over the years.

I hear what you are saying, but this is none of the NCAA's business. This is for the State of PA and the Feds. People are in jail and more may be there soon. It's just beyond NCAA's purview. We're talking about felony CRIMES here, not NCAA violations of rules on competition. I just don't see how the issues match up. People are having to twist NCAA rules to make a case.

Everyone wants to see some sort of punishment. I say the guilty already have been punished or are indicted at least. But the argument that the wrong-doers have been punished and removed will not matter to the NCAA. We've seen that with sanctions of other teams years after their alleged violations.

[ODShowtime]

Good.

The football stadium should come down next.

They should be concentrating on education anyway.

I think this hurts the most. Well second after the guilt.

Joe was always mentoring his "kids", the football players, and working to turn them into productive young men. He took their education seriously and made them do the same. He wanted them to succeed in life and improve their communities. Kids with crappy grades, or even disrespectful of professors had trouble getting a helmet on game day. Great talent got in Joe's doghouse for not keeping up the grades and some never came out. We took pride in our team having high graduation rates and turning out good citizens. Joe ALWAYS had their education as a top priority and now I get to read stuff like this. I get to read FROM OUR OWN GODDAMNED BOARD OF TRUSTEES that now we'll get our priorities straight and focus on education. Because in their eyes I guess we hadn't been doing that for at least the last 40 years. I've heard there are a few other universities around the nation that happen to have football teams too and manage both.

Even if the worst things said about Paterno are true, why does it take this part away from all of us? We were a good school that took pride in our education, not just our team. Joe taught us that football was a metaphor for life. The struggle to improve and find the best in yourself through competition. The responsibility of having to be a good citizen to be able to play. Bringing the whole community together for a greater good. You're all aware that the students raise about $10 million for cancer research every year I'm sure.

The evil cocksuckers exploiting this tragedy will tell you that Joe covered up child abuse for his own backside. It makes no sense. They tell you that we all sold our soul for our football team, that we selfishly cherished the team for its wins on the field and the money it generated us for our own gain. Get the motive right at least when discussing a crime. We cherished our team because it represented what was good about PSU as symbol, and because it was exciting and fun. When OSU got clobbered last year, I thought about how they'd gotten us a lot the last few years, but at least we had our integrity and how that mattered more than wins. I had sympathy for buckeye supporters and refrained from rubbing their nose in shit every day about it.

Many including von say that Joe and vicariously the rest of us cared about football more than education, and perhaps more than our own integrity. I think you're full of shit Von. And so are all the people who think that. This post ain't just to you, it's to all of them.

[gbranton]

... take a few minutes and read this. Then you can continue the lynch mob. gbranton, feel free to let me know if there are any spelling errors.

This is not the most credible source I've ever seen, but I've had independent verification of most of the facts discussed. I don't even know who this guy is, but he's pretty sharp. Or maybe he just like pedophiles too.

Matt Millen is a massive tool, how anyone could be SO bad at their job and continue to find employment mystifies me. The funny thing about the article is this guy wants us to go way out on a limb for the Penn State administration........and then he throws out the line "even actual pedophiles like Michael Jackson..." LOL. Of course I BELIEVE he was a pedophile, but Michael Jackson got aquitted.

I see that the media has used this to some extent, ESPN is the lowest of the low. Their journalistic standards are nonexistent. They tried to conjure up a story out of nothing against Bernie Fine because what is better than one pedophile story? Uhhh, hmmmm, uh I guess TWO pedophile stories. But I have read portions of the Freeh report and I think they are somewhat damning.

And you get an "A" on this post, LOL.

[gbranton]

I'd like an answer to that question as well. You can ask my coworkers about that.

That's pretty poor stuff from your co-workers. But like I said in my earlier post, I would probably have taken it down on my own for a good while, but people grieve differently.

And in the middle of the worst dressing down I've ever gotten on the Roth Army you throw in a grammar police comment! That was funny. I bet you proof read that whole bullshit rant of your's, right?

It was meant to be funny. But I do proofread ALL the bullshit I post.

I don't believe this is even a PSU scandal. I think it's a jerry sandusky scandal, and a 2nd mile charity scandal.

I guess this a big point where we disagree. I feel that it is because of who the people are who are involved and the positions they help. The crimes didn't actually occur ON the actually football field during a game BUT they took place at a university which is a member of the NCAA and involved people who were part of the athletic department.

I cared about my team too much and it's led to children being raped. That's the narrative I hear.

See, that part I don't understand. It didn't have anything to do with you or how much you cared about your team. To me that is kind of a twisted narrative and in my opinion you shouldn't feel that way.

But I don't want to be ashamed of who I am.

You shouldn't be. But what I got from your prior posts was you felt as though you personally were being punished and that it would somehow destroy the quality of your life. Your posts tonight are almost like were written by another person. One who is vastly more likable.

It's been dug up by everyone by now and all they have is a few emails.

But those emails, in the context of what was happening at the time are pretty damning, in places they pretty much spell it out.

The thing you're not grasping is that I don't believe that PSU "protected" a child molester.

This is where we disagree, based on what I read in the report.

They're using it to bully us. To shame us because that makes people feel better about their wretched lives.

I know the media DOES do this, quite often in fact, but I think there is a kernel of truth to all this that makes this stick rather than fall apart like the Bernie Fine thing. I naturally distrust the media as well, so I think there is an element of truth to that regarding the sensationalism. I also think they want to be the driving force of events and want to be known as "the ones who brought down..... whomever". But as I said before i believe there is enough here that it will spell big trouble for everyone involved.

[fourthcoming]

OD...again, not attacking you on a personal level here.....Nothing went on at Penn State without Paterno knowing about it or without his seal of approval. I'm not saying he approved of Sandusky but there's no doubt he knew what a slimeball he was. Why, in 1998, when Sandusky was poised to eventually be the next head coach, did he retire? Paterno and the rest of them knew what he was doing and still allowed him to have full run of the university, no questions asked. Nobody ever raised an eye brow when this guy was continuing to show up on campus with young children or taking young kids to bowl games? They facilitated his behavior and turned a blind eye. There is no media frame job with Paterno going on here. He knew what kind of guy Sandusky was and didn't want Penn State's reputation tarnished in any way. I will never understand why, but that's a fact.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

The Paterno family visited the statue yesterday, so I would wager it's coming down....

[ODShowtime]

I see that the media has used this to some extent, ESPN is the lowest of the low. Their journalistic standards are nonexistent. They tried to conjure up a story out of nothing against Bernie Fine because what is better than one pedophile story?

Well we agree on something! I would like to submit the fact that whether the Fine charges were true or not, ESPN had possession of an audio tape from Fine's wife alleging abuse. They sat on this tape for 8 years.

ESPN makes a shit load of money from Syracuse basketball (just like PSU I know) and they have a shit ton of Syracuse graduates from what I understand. They'll tell you that anyone at PSU that didn't go immediately to the police when they had any knowledge of a crime is a criminal themselves, perhaps as bad as the pedophile child molester. And yet they had knowledge of alleged child rape and NEVER went to the police. Luckily someone there had a chance to be asked about it, their editor or ombudsman or whatever. He let the world know that as a news agency, ESPN didn't have a responsibility to go to the Police.

Bernie Fine Scandal: ESPN Initially Witheld Recorded Conversations Between Bobby Davis, Laurie Fine

Even if a genuine lack of voice authentication or allegation corroboration previously created a journalistic impediment to airing the story, many have still questioned why ESPN didn't at least share the recording with police or administrators at Syracuse. In the aforementioned interview with Anderson Cooper, Schwarz said that "journalists are not necessarily required or expected to hand over evidence that they did not obtain or create themselves to the police."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/29/bernie-fine-scandal-espn-recording-bobby-davis-syracuse_n_1119359.html

Forget about whether that was an actual crime or not. It doesn't matter. It could have been.

ESPN made it very clear that a football coach most certainly does have this responsibility though and his entire 60 year career of good is now completely destroyed for the same crime, even though there is no rock solid evidence to prove it. They DESTROYED Joe Paterno and he was a good man. All he heard was a 2nd hand story. All Joe had was third hand testimony. 60 years of doing the right thing should have earned him the benefit of the doubt, but the hyenas just want their meat. They will rip it right off the bone.

This is why I have a hard time being civil about this. I have very strong feelings about ESPN and what I think should happen to their headquarters and the employees and management involved in that and this fiasco. I want people to pay for this. I want revenge. And I want real justice for the real victims and the real perps.

[ODShowtime]

You shouldn't be. But what I got from your prior posts was you felt as though you personally were being punished and that it would somehow destroy the quality of your life. Your posts tonight are almost like were written by another person. One who is vastly more likable.

Well I was on different drugs last night than the other night . I'm sad for myself and all the rest of the students and alumni and the good folks who live in the region I grew up. I'm devastated for the Paterno family, who by all accounts are decent and innocent people except for one exception in some people's minds. Poor Sue is completely innocent and probably the worst victim in this other than the poor children. It breaks my fucking heart what she's had to go through.

I'm sad because no matter what, my school has been devastated financially, and that will take away alot of the good work they do for the students, the community, and the reasearch they provide to the world's scientific community. And all the non-revenue generating sports that will be destroyed from the lack of funding. That all hurts innocent people. A death sentence would dry up $70 million a year in revenue for the region, one which cannot afford such a hit

This is where we disagree, based on what I read in the report.

Thank you for taking the time to see it from my perspective and reading that article. I didn't really deserve that from you after some of the fire and brimstone I unleashed. I don't want to make enemies here, I want to build bridges of understanding... and flame that shit out of anyone who still doesn't get it. You may not agree with me, but it appears that you at least respect my point of view. Thank you.

I definitely understand your point of view. If PSU leaders really did institute a real coverup to protect themselves and the football money, you should be indignant about it. But the proof isn't there right now. It may appear pretty soon though at which point I will admit defeat.

[ODShowtime]

I'm not saying he approved of Sandusky but there's no doubt he knew what a slimeball he was. Why, in 1998, when Sandusky was poised to eventually be the next head coach, did he retire?

The monster retired from football so he could focus on the children's charity he had founded 20 years earlier. Joe wanted him out because he focused too much time on there instead of on football.

Sandusky walked away from a successful career coaching football that he could have parlayed into an even more lucrative career. He left millions of dollars on the table. In a vacuum, those facts gave him incredible cover to commit his heinous crimes.

Joe and Jerry both cared more about other things than money. Joe cared more about the students and the kids on his team and the community. That's why he was always paid so little compared to his peers and why he donated so many millions back to the University. Jerry cared more about raping kids than football, and that's why he retired. It was a perfect cover.

Of course we get to read articles about Joe being paid his very much earned retirement package and how that shouldn't have happened, and how the Paterno family's tax management plan, that anyone in their position would have, was really a move to shield assets from the victims. Fucking disgraceful, hateful, terrible bullshit journalism from the scum that we call news outlets.

[Von Halen]

OD, do you really believe Joe Paterno knew nothing about what this other piece of shit was doing? Really? Are you so naive to believe Joe Pa was so naive? You can put Joe Pa on as high of a pedestal as you want, but the facts are the facts. He fucking knew what Sandusky was doing, and he turned the other cheek. Just like you are doing. Joe Pa cared so much about his athletes getting their education, but he didn't care about young boys getting their lives ruined. Joe Pa got exactly what he deserved. Fired, and then death. His legacy is ruined forever. If that institution had any decency, they would give their football team the death penalty without waiting for the NCAA to do it. They don't. They won't. Because they only care about the money that is generated.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

The statue is fenced and tarped off now, will start being taken down this morning.....

[Va Beach VH Fan]