Terry Schiavo

[Cathedral]

1) MS has stated that he's doing this because it was Terri's wish. He authorized the feeding tube in the 1st place. If he was abiding by her wishes then why did he authorize it to begin with?

For the same reason I would, because there may be a chance she'll improve in the future.

2) Why was has all rehab therapy stopped back in '93? In '91 she was improving! '92 the settlement money pours in...what gives?!?

This can be based somewhat on the diagnosis the doctors have given Michael Schiavo, although i don't claim to know his motivations nor do i agree with them if they aren't sincere. Even still, he is her guardian and has legal right to do what he has been trying to do.

3) Show me another "husband" that cares so much for his ailing wife's wishes that he finds the need to shack up with a common-law wife and father 2 children with her out of wedlock...all the while his wife is in a hospice! I'm not buying the "loving husband" bit one bit!

Really we should be careful to place our own morality on another human being. It is human nature for everyone to need companionship and in this situation it is a very lonely time and tough to deal with alone. I'm not excusing what he did, and even i haven't been perfect in this regard, but it doesn't diminish the love he may have had for her, he's just facing the fact that they will never be husband and wife in the realistic sense of the union.

Fuck man, I don't have any answers that even i am comfortable with, only opinions from my own perspective.
The fact that she was not able to select him as her Representative troubles me.
She did not have the foresight to make arrangements or write down her wishes, so more than anything i am looking at the testimony of her friends that said in court that she would not want to live this way more than what her husband says.
There is more than enough reason for me to doubt his sincerity in this.

But if you look at it from a legal perspective i have to acknowledge his position in this because the burden lays on his shoulders legally.
He has been offered Millions to walk away, but he doesn't take it and that begs the question, Why?.

He states it is because of what her parents intend to do, but the media says it is more of a criminal cover up, and i don't know any facts on that because i question the source of those initial complaints.

But beyond all of that, she doesn't deserve to be a pawn in this and should just be allowed to go on into the hands of God once and for all.
While everyone consumes themselves with all the legal banter of this, she lays there in limbo without a clue as to what's happening around her.
I say just end it all and allow her the right to die because the one thing i believe in all of this is that shehas stated to more than one person her wishes and that has been upheld in court.

Then after all the political smoke clears, investigate Michael Schiavo and hold his ass accountable for any wrong doing he and his attorney can be found guilty of because that is a seperate issue that Terri can offer no testimony to.

[Cathedral]

But Cathedral you are wrong if you think Congress has not passed individual personal bills before, because they have. A law prof researched it last year and published a piece on it. They were however usually attached on another bill, so the public never heard about it unlike this situation.

I know that very well, for instance, it happened in a Michigan case in the 80's with a man who was in a car wreck.
His wife was over ruled and they kept him alive until he died of infection in 1989.

And there are other cases very similar to this, and it is an abuse of political power.

I just want to see Terri get the peace she has clearly told people she would prefer to this, everything else is irrelevant and can be taken up at a later date without denying her what she wanted.

I am by no means saying kill her and be done with it, I am saying that i agree with the initial judgement that being kept alive like this is against her wishes.

If laws were broken, investigate and prosecute, but Terri can offer no testimony so give her what she wanted.

[DrMaddVibe]

It is the legal position that troubles me.

A judge that continues to dismiss witness and expert testimony regarding Terri's wishes. His failure to find MS practicing bigamy and dismissing his rights as a guardian for Terri. And finally refusing to allow the family and doctors willing to treat her (for free in several cases!) for rehabilitative purposes.

It seems like the Schlinder's are in a no-win contest but haven't been able to get their side heard!

In my opinion judge Greer and MS should stand up and do the right thing. Admit their mistakes and let her family take care of her. They've already stated they'd take care of the bills so there goes that angle; however if it were me I'd have MS repay the "legal costs" that Terri's settlement paid for!

How twisted is it that her own money that was supposed to be used for her is being used to kill her.

[Cathedral]

This only moves me to think that Living Wills should be outlawed and those who fall into a PVS have no options but to live until medical intervention can no longer sustain you.

POA's will then be legal on the basis of doing everything possible for your loved one until that time, and to ok any medical treatment during such time.

I really have no desire for me or anyone else being in a position to terminate life support in any way for anyone.

But this will leave so many people in financial dispair and could bankrupt insurance companies, so there is a whole lot to consider in all of this because it isn't just an emotional burden, it is a financial burden as well.
And like most people, I don't care how much debt i get slammed with, you can't get blood out of a turnip, and i'm not rich.

I mean, I am heavily insured, i learned my lessons early in life. but where do you turn if your insurance provider goes bankrupt?
I'm not even gonna mention how much it costs to care for a disabled person, and the government doesn't supply shit for disability in that respect.
And Medicaid would severly limit the options in the patients care.
Medicare? covers 20% and no more.
Not to mention how much i have to pay in premiums AND raise a minor child....And some wonder why i am so fucked up around here.

Fuck, this site is therapy for me, lol.

[academic punk]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
It is the legal position that troubles me.

A judge that continues to dismiss witness and expert testimony regarding Terri's wishes. His failure to find MS practicing bigamy and dismissing his rights as a guardian for Terri. And finally refusing to allow the family and doctors willing to treat her (for free in several cases!) for rehabilitative purposes.

It seems like the Schlinder's are in a no-win contest but haven't been able to get their side heard!

The reason is that MS has taken the professional assessments and determinations of the doctors most central to TS, and said, My wife would not want to live this life.

The fact that he's refusing the money and the free ride only reasserts that. He's acting in HER best wishes, not HIS.

In my opinion judge Greer and MS should stand up and do the right thing. Admit their mistakes and let her family take care of her. They've already stated they'd take care of the bills so there goes that angle; however if it were me I'd have MS repay the "legal costs" that Terri's settlement paid for!

How twisted is it that her own money that was supposed to be used for her is being used to kill her.

[academic punk]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
It is the legal position that troubles me.

A judge that continues to dismiss witness and expert testimony regarding Terri's wishes. His failure to find MS practicing bigamy and dismissing his rights as a guardian for Terri. And finally refusing to allow the family and doctors willing to treat her (for free in several cases!) for rehabilitative purposes.

It seems like the Schlinder's are in a no-win contest but haven't been able to get their side heard!



In my opinion judge Greer and MS should stand up and do the right thing. Admit their mistakes and let her family take care of her. They've already stated they'd take care of the bills so there goes that angle; however if it were me I'd have MS repay the "legal costs" that Terri's settlement paid for!

How twisted is it that her own money that was supposed to be used for her is being used to kill her.

The reason is that MS has taken the professional assessments and determinations of the doctors most central to TS, and said, My wife would not want to live this life.

The fact that he's refusing the money and the free ride only reasserts that. He's acting in HER best wishes, not HIS.

[tomballin]

>>His failure to find MS practicing bigamy and dismissing his rights as a guardian for Terri.

MS is not practicing bigamy. He is not married to his live in. What he is doing is not illegal, maybe not moral, but not illegal.

Now MS is using his live in’s name to hide assets, based on a records search, that could be illegal, but again if you cannot prove it in court you got zero against him, and he wins.

A lot of Probate Judges are the dumbest of the lot for sure, and Greer is no exception, but again that's life.

>>And finally refusing to allow the family and doctors willing to treat her (for free in several cases!) for rehabilitative purposes.

The doctor’s Terri’s parents have brought into court are quacks using unproven techniques, with no valid medical science. No one with half a brain would EVER let those quacks get close to their PVS/quasi-PVS loved ones.

One their medical experts is on probation by the Florida Medical Association for defrauding patients on his bogus medical protocols, that he advertised in the National Enquirer for gosh sakes! Yet her parents had that quack as their spokesman all over the TV and the print media HELLO! Another doctor’s idea is extremely dangerous and highly contraindication for a person in Terri’s persent state.

And then they got that criminal Randall Terry as their ra ra leader and spokesman. Some of the people in that mofo’s group were involved in the death and injury of doctors and nurses in some legal Florida abortion clinics years back.

Terry and his lunatic clowns have also been involved in throwing volitle butyric acid on doctors, nurses, and patients at legally operated abortion clinics, and drilling holes in exterior walls and pumping that caustic shit into their offices and patient’s rooms.

You think the Florida State Law Enforcement officials don’t know these facts, when the Schindler’s come asking for their help for their daughter Terri. Again HELLO!

Terri’s parents give MS’s attorney George Felos, this case win on a silver platter most of the time over the years, and make a mockery of the courts with junk like this.

Honestly some of it is not their fault, but come on.

The whole problem in a nutshell is Florida’s laws on this matter. The original drafters of the bill, now law, that Michael Schiavo is using to bag Terri, have stated publicly the law is flawed, and they never intended for something like this to happen, and the Judicial branch was interrupting the law wrong based on their original intent.
That was in 2003, and they swore to fix the law in 2004, first thing in their new Legislative session, yet NOTHING has happened to date.

Hey, you have some very knowledgeable posts on this matter. Not trying to bang on you. But obviously this whole situation gets real frustrating, real quick.

Roth On

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
It is the legal position that troubles me.

A judge that continues to dismiss witness and expert testimony regarding Terri's wishes. His failure to find MS practicing bigamy and dismissing his rights as a guardian for Terri. And finally refusing to allow the family and doctors willing to treat her (for free in several cases!) for rehabilitative purposes.

It seems like the Schlinder's are in a no-win contest but haven't been able to get their side heard!

In my opinion judge Greer and MS should stand up and do the right thing. Admit their mistakes and let her family take care of her. They've already stated they'd take care of the bills so there goes that angle; however if it were me I'd have MS repay the "legal costs" that Terri's settlement paid for!

How twisted is it that her own money that was supposed to be used for her is being used to kill her.

[tomballin]

Originally posted by academic punk
The reason is that MS has taken the professional assessments and determinations of the doctors most central to TS, and said, My wife would not want to live this life.

The fact that he's refusing the money and the free ride only reasserts that. He's acting in HER best wishes, not HIS.

I am sorry but that is total bullshit. MS is using "planted" euthanasia supporting doctors, that Felos lined up and have been used in other cases around the U.S. His main physician expert was from Illinois I think without pulling the file.

Sorry that's the facts here.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by FORD
If stem cells could help the vegetable formerly known as Terri Schiavo, they wouldn't allow that either.

Of course she's way past that. But Christopher Reeve wasn't

FORD, do you call people with Parkinson's Disease "Vegetables" also?

That's about as a disgusting term for another human being as one can call another.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
FORD, do you call people with Parkinson's Disease "Vegetables" also?

That's about as a disgusting term for another human being as one can call another.

Terrible comparison.

I have some very direct and personal experience on this one.

Not even close

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Terrible comparison.

I have some very direct and personal experience on this one.

Not even close

So does (or did) FORD, but I'm not going there out of respect.

It was entirely to make that very point.

[tomballin]

Originally posted by Cathedral
[B]This only moves me to think that Living Wills should be outlawed

Let's not go back to the stone age here, over this one sick case, due to Florida's screwed up laws. We also have to remember this happened 15 years ago, when a lot of people didn't know about Living Wills AND Durable Power's of Attorney.

These days you need both because some doctors still think they are God and will ignore Living Wills in the "interest of medicine" and their "professional judgement at the time".

Third, some States including mine, have legal Health Care Directives and a card you carry in your wallet. I have one.

It's so when Diamond Dave shows up in the meat wagon, and you cannot communicate your wishes and special needs, Dave can find the card and check it out real quick. It protects the EMT from liability also.

That card saved my life a couple of years ago when I was involved in a very serious car accident, and had requirements that the EMT's HAD to know about or I would be pushing up daisies now.

A lot of athletes, body builders, etc on "special programs" :-) lives have been saved by these HCD cards also.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian

It was entirely to make that very point.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by tomballin

These days you need both because some doctors still think they are God and will ignore Living Wills in the "interest of medicine" and their "professional judgement at the time".

In the state of Ohio, that is a crime.

But even some people who had both got their living wills contested by family and lost their right's to their wishes.

I have both, and the Schiavo case is the reason why. and this is a wake up call to everyone who doesn't.

So, Tomballin, I am curious as to your opinion on what should happen with Terri?
You are well versed in the history, but i am curious as to your opinion for a conclusion...If i missed that post, I apologize.

[tomballin]

Originally posted by Cathedral
[B]I just want to see Terri get the peace she has clearly told people she would prefer to this, everything else is irrelevant and can be taken up at a later date without denying her what she wanted.

This is what pisses me and others off. There is no proof of this as fact anywhere. PERIOD.

Plus why didn't her fuck head husband say any of this in the malpractice trial, that he obviously defrauded, by saying it after the trial and he got the money.

The devil is in the details, Cat. Always is, and remember Terri was Pro-Choice and Catholic.