Healthcare Reform Bill IS THE Law

[kwame k]

I've read both liberal and conservative sources on this. They both say the same thing.

I'm not a constitutional attorney. I'll take the word from those of both sides of the political aisle that are.

This is one aspect of this law that even Republicans agree with, among others.

It just needs to be fixed.

It does suggest not many people actually read this bill before voting, however. We already knew that.

The thing is everyone is throwing out all these wild accusations.

Haven't heard any more about the supposed Death Panels from the Bogey Man News Media sources in awhile. It's better just to spout off about wild accusations to get ratings than have real facts. It makes for better TV.

The bill's shit......having said this for the 1,000th time here. My point has been and will continue to be is, we need reform and affordable health care for all. We're not there by a long shot but at least it's in the National eye now, that's about the only good I can see so far.

[ELVIS]

My point has been and will continue to be is, we need reform and affordable health care for all. We're not there by a long shot but at least it's in the National eye now, that's about the only good I can see so far.

Well, if you believe that affordable health care for all is the intent of the federal government, I have a bridge you may be interested in...

[kwame k]

It's not about intent, E. It's time has come. We are the only industrialized nation that doesn't have universal coverage. The cost of health care in this country is rising faster then the average income is. Income has been stagnant in this country for how many years but costs still keep rising.

It's not just the poor or the working poor who can't afford coverage, it's the middle class, too. Small businesses can't offer coverage and even major corporations have gotten around covering their people. So if your employer can't or won't cover you and you can't afford coverage what are you supposed to do? Yes, that's the time the Federal or State government should step in and either regulate it or fix it. They're not there just to fight the Bogey Man in a foreign land

Yes, I have a social conscience and if you think that makes me a liberal then I guess that's because I was raised with a religious background. From The Old Testament to the New how many times does it mention the poor and the duty of every true Christian/Jew to help them. Morally it is the right thing to do.

Keep spinning it anyway that makes you feel comfortable but at the end of the day we do have an obligation to the poor in our own backyard. I'm not talking about a welfare State, I'm talking about giving people a fighting chance at what the great promise of this country was and can be again. The American Dream.

[ELVIS]

It's not about intent, E.

Yes it is...

it's about government takeover and tax collection...nothing more...

[ELVIS]

Yes, that's the time the Federal or State government should step in

State, NOT federal!

I have a social conscience as well and it tells me to keep the federal government off of the backs of the population, as the founding fathers intended...

[kwame k]

State, NOT federal!

I have a social conscience as well and it tells me to keep the federal government off of the backs of the population, as the founding fathers intended...

....but it's OK for the Federal government to fund roads, schools and the hundreds of other things it does? Where did the founding fathers say that. Where is it? You can't pick and choose on this because it's a stupid premise. Our country hasn't been ran like the Founding Fathers intended for a few hundred years.

Another lame ass Rove-like scare tactic. Our Federal government is a huge cluster fuck at times but it does provide services. It has no problem running wars and using over 60% of our money to fund the machine. Did our founding fathers intend that? Did they intend to let corporate greed and unregulated scams ruin our economy? Did they intend for The Patriot Act to allow the Federal government to spy on it's own people? Read some of Ben Franklin's quote on the subject or Jefferson for that matter.

Using the founding fathers as an example falls short every time. Fucking Washington was bled to death as a cure for his aliment. Talk about health care, Jesus Christ but on the bright side if we did go back to the good old days we could own slaves

[Blackflag]

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/businesses-react-to-rising-cost-of-obamacare-they%27re-cutting-benefits-450638.html?tickers=mdt,cat,vz,xlv,ixj,^dji,^gspc&sec=topStories&pos=6&asset=&ccode=

Businesses React to Rising Cost of ObamaCare: They're Cutting Benefits

-- Caterpillar said it would cost the company at least $100 million more in the first year alone.
-- Medical device maker Medtronic warned that new taxes on its products could force it to lay off a thousand workers.
-- Verizon announced to employees that it will likely have to cut healthcare benefits to offset the new costs.

So, people who like your employer-provided health insurance, get ready to pay more or get less.

[knuckleboner]

KB, Nitro Express is correct. I've heard from multiple news sources that there is some loophole in the bill/law that NOBODY, even children, with pre-existing conditions are entitled to insurance until 2014. It's something they are going to have to fix.

that is not quite correct.

is there a specific carve out for kids? i don't think in the final version. is there a requirement that all private plans must cover preexisting conditions immedately? again, i'm pretty sure not until 2014.

but the section that i quoted is the stop-gap measure that is in effect until 2014 so that people with preexisting conditions can get help immediately. it provides government subsidies until 2014, allowing the private insurance companies an opportunity to prepare. these subsidies will disappear in 2014 when the requirement for private insurance companies comes into effect.

so, while it's a little confusing, i believe kids (along with adults) with preexisting conditions WILL be have an option within 6 months.


(and, i'll admit to not having read cover to cover, but i guarantee you, i've read more than my share...)

[Cathedral]

FREE, is just another word for Socialist.

The federal government doesn't fund a damn thing, it's the tax payers that do.
I'm neither left or right, but i take offense to politicians who ignore the voice of the people. The good thing is, we'll find out in Novemeber just what the people have to say about all this.

I support Health Care Reform, but only in the context that it regulates costs and premiums so that it is affordable by ALL Americans.
NOT giving it to everyone when the system hasn't been set up to handle 34+ million more people first. This administration put an expensive, over priced horse before a busted ass cart.

You'll see, and in short order...everyone will see...there are some great things in this bill, but they are surrounded by the typical bullshit entitlements and pork deals we see in every bill. many of which do nothing more than rob us of more freedoms and liberties under the constitution.
Fine me for NOT having insurance?
Are they fucking crazy?

[GAR]

You can't judge a country's healthcare just by it's VD clinics.

In the movie Americathon, alot of predictions like Obamacare came true.

One of 'em was that the UK went bankrupt and became a tourist state/park called LimeyLand.

Just a few hundred-thousand more Big Brother cams on every streetcorner and bus stop over there before that one comes true huh?

[GAR]

FREE, is just another word for Socialist.

Fine me for NOT having insurance?
Are they fucking crazy?

Yeah and if you ever should use it, they'll tax you forty percent.

Not crazy, not socialist: the approach here is Fascist.

[BigBadBrian]

I support Health Care Reform, but only in the context that it regulates costs and premiums so that it is affordable by ALL Americans.
NOT giving it to everyone when the system hasn't been set up to handle 34+ million more people first. This administration put an expensive, over priced horse before a busted ass cart.

Well said!!!

[BigBadBrian]

so, while it's a little confusing, i believe kids (along with adults) with preexisting conditions WILL be have an option within 6 months.

You know what? I honestly hope you're correct...by God I do.

In either case, this will be rectified shortly.

I really don't think there is too many people in this country, or in Congress, that want to see people in this situation without health insurance.

It' just a matter of how we're going to pay for all of this without going completely broke like the UK is.

[BigBadBrian]

businesses react to rising cost of obamacare they're cutting benefits: Tech Ticker, Yahoo! Finance

Businesses React to Rising Cost of ObamaCare: They're Cutting Benefits

-- Caterpillar said it would cost the company at least $100 million more in the first year alone.
-- Medical device maker Medtronic warned that new taxes on its products could force it to lay off a thousand workers.
-- Verizon announced to employees that it will likely have to cut healthcare benefits to offset the new costs.

So, people who like your employer-provided health insurance, get ready to pay more or get less.

That's economics.

[BigBadBrian]

....but it's OK for the Federal government to fund roads, schools and the hundreds of other things it does? Where did the founding fathers say that. Where is it? You can't pick and choose on this because it's a stupid premise.

No it's not.

Providing for the defense of our great nation, building roads, providing an infrastructure, is what governments do.

Contrary to popular belief of what's been said by your liberal brethren on this board, having an armed forces, cities and communities providing a police force and fire department, regulating utilities (to an extent), and other such examples is not socialism.

Now don't get me wrong, I'd like to see everyone in this country covered by affordable effective healthcare. Like I said in a post above, it's just how to go about it without driving this country into economic ruin. And no, I don't believe universal healthcare is the answer.