Healthcare Reform Bill IS THE Law

[WACF]

Somebody has to pay for this work. You and Sesh just want it not to be you.

But if insurance doesn't cover it, why shouldn't it be you paying for it? Again, there's nothing better to spend your last dime on. Who gives a shit about bankruptcy if you're dying? It's encouraging to know that a hospital will work on you even if you don't have the cash up front or insurance to cover it.

And, if either of you had a single naked clue, you'd know that bankruptcy in that case is actually a good thing, because it lets you get out from under it and move on with your life. (Thanks to the doctors that you just stiffed, btw.)

Dumb motherfuckers. Fuck off.

Yes...someone has to pay for it.

My tax dollars help ensure my fellow countrymen/women have the right to get medical help to save their lives and/or improve their health, therefore improving their standard of living...or quality of life.

I would have it no other way...but then that is how we roll...

[kwame k]

And, if either of you had a single naked clue, you'd know that bankruptcy in that case is actually a good thing, because it lets you get out from under it and move on with your life. (Thanks to the doctors that you just stiffed, btw.)

Dumb motherfuckers. Fuck off.

....and everyone's costs go up to cover the nonpaying bankrupted ones.

How can you say that? Out of all the dumb ass things you spew on these boards, this has got to be the dumbest.

[Blackflag]

The point is why should it cost so much to have that done? Why is health care costs increasing to the point where no one can afford to even get sick?

I agree with Dr. Love in that insurance companies shouldn't be profiting from any of this. There's no reason we can't regulate the insurance companies, take the profit out of it, or index insurance prices to inflation. This new law doesn't do any of that.

But then people want to make the leap to - I shouldn't have to pay for anything. I should be responsible for paying for my illness. People should be taxed to pay for other people's insurance. Which is a big fucking leap and has nothing to do with the first issue.

It just amazes me that people can even argue anything pro health care in this country. The entire system is corrupt and there is no reason health care in this country should costs what it does. Every other industrialized nation in the world has lower health care costs than we do.

Nobody would be against controlling insurance costs. But that's not what this law does, and that's not what Sesh is arguing. One group wants to shovel cash to the insurance companies, and another group wants free services from doctors with no personal responsibility. That just pisses everybody off and does nothing to control costs.

It's OK to spend over 60% of our discretionary budget on the Military and not even double digits on health care......something that every American has or will use. Utter bullshit.

Dude, stop with the red herring already. Nobody said it's ok to spend all that money on the military or Iraq. That doesn't have anything to do with this topic.

[Blackflag]

....and everyone's costs go up to cover the nonpaying bankrupted ones.

How can you say that? Out of all the dumb ass things you spew on these boards, this has got to be the dumbest.

Are you saying it's not good for a person to be able to declare personal bankruptcy? What do you want, a debtor's prison? Indentured servitude?

All you said is that, at worst, it's the same as what Sesh wants - other citizens are picking up your slack because you were too fucking stupid/lazy to provide for your own care.

[kwame k]

Are you saying it's not good for a person to be able to declare personal bankruptcy? What do you want, a debtor's prison? Indentured servitude?

All you said is that, at worst, it's the same as what Sesh wants - other citizens are picking up your slack because you were too fucking stupid/lazy to provide for your own care.

What part don't you get about people not being able to afford coverage......

It's just dumb to think a viable solution is for people to declare bankruptcy or worse yet lose everything.....savings, etc, because they get sick.

How is it being lazy or stupid if you can't afford coverage? After taxes I clear about $650.00 a week, times that by four weeks in a month and I clear around $2,600.00 a month. I'm an independent contractor, so I'm not covered by work. I've gotten quotes for $1,000 to $1,500 a month for complete coverage. So I should have to spend up to 1/2 of my monthly income on coverage?

How does that make any sense? Add in housing and other expenses, how is that even feasible.........

I'm not even close to poverty levels or the working poor by my yearly income. Yet, over half of my income should go for coverage?

Maybe I should just roll the dice and do what your brilliant plan is.....if I get sick let other people pay for it and ruin my credit by declaring bankruptcy.

You do realize that they look at your monthly income to debt ratio and if you can afford to make payments, they won't just let you file for bankruptcy.

[Blackflag]

What part don't you get about people not being able to afford coverage......

It's just dumb to think a viable solution is for people to declare bankruptcy or worse yet lose everything.....savings, etc, because they get sick.

How is it being lazy or stupid if you can't afford coverage? After taxes I clear about $650.00 a week, times that by four weeks in a month and I clear around $2,600.00 a month. I'm an independent contractor, so I'm not covered by work. I've gotten quotes for $1,000 to $1,500 a month for complete coverage. So I should have to spend up to 1/2 of my monthly income on coverage?

How does that make any sense? Add in housing and other expenses, how is that even feasible.........

I'm not even close to poverty levels or the working poor by my yearly income. Yet, over half of my income should go for coverage?

Maybe I should just roll the dice and do what your brilliant plan is.....if I get sick let other people pay for it and ruin my credit by declaring bankruptcy.

You do realize that they look at your monthly income to debt ratio and if you can afford to make payments, they won't just let you file for bankruptcy.

That all sounds like a reason to reduce insurance costs. This law doesn't do that. And neither does Sesh's argument, or your hatred of personal bankruptcy laws.


But barring that - because the politicians will never do that - what are your options? 1) Go without insurance. 2) Pay half your income. 3) Get a second job.

Do you really want an option 4) - have Gar pay for it for you? Get real. Man up, and pick 2) or 3) and be done with it. Shit.

[Fuct Jup]

7 Sickening Questions About Obamacare

A new CBS News poll finds that “nearly two in three Americans want Republicans in Congress to continue to challenge parts of the health care reform bill.” At this point, there will only be minor technical changes in the bill even with the new House vote required for final passage. But the battle over public opinion goes on. Here are seven sickening questions about Obamacare that all Americans must consider:

1. What big government entitlement program has ever:

• Reduced the deficit?
• Only cost what it says it will and lowered the costs of goods and services?
• Improved quality?
• Enhanced efficiency?
• Decreased delays?
• Fostered more choice and competition?
• Featured competent bureaucracy?
• Operated with honest accounting?
• Avoided fraud, abuse, waste, maddening red tape, and higher taxes?

Why should we trust that Obamacare will do all that? Obamacare’s deceptive budget cooking was described in one instance by Senate Budget Committee chairman Kent Conrad (D-ND) as "a Ponzi scheme of the first order, the kind of thing that Bernie Madoff would have been proud of."

2. Why does Obamacare exempt some in Congress and the White House from having to buy the same health care plans that the law forces other Americans to purchase: President Obama, Vice President Biden, Cabinet members, top White House staff, congressional committee staff and leadership staff, such as those who work for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.)? Republican Senators Chuck Grassley (Iowa) and Tom Coburn (Oklahoma) tried to close this loophole, but Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) wouldn’t even let it come up for a vote. As Grassley says, “It’s only fair and logical that top administration officials, who fought so hard for passage of this overhaul of America’s health care system, experience it themselves. If it’s as good as promised, they’ll know it first-hand. If there are problems, they’ll be able to really understand them, as they should.”

3. How will we deal with a doctor shortage caused by Obamacare, particularly when doctors are being asked to treat 32 million more Americans now insured by the new law?

The Medicus Firm a medical recruitment company, found in a survey that 46 percent of physicians said they’d quit or retire if Obamacare became law. According to the survey, "even if a much smaller percentage such as ten, 15, or 20 percent are pushed out of practice over several years at a time when the field needs to expand by over 20 percent, this would be severely detrimental to the quality of the health care system."

4. How will patients—particularly senior citizens—feel when their doctors and even hospitals tell them, “Sorry, but we’re only taking on non-Medicare patients who pay privately, in full”?

The New York Times (which championed Obamacare) wrote last year that “Some doctors—often internists but also gastroenterologists, gynecologists, psychiatrists and other specialists—are no longer accepting Medicare, either because they have opted out of the insurance system or they are not accepting new patients with Medicare coverage. The doctors’ reasons: reimbursement rates are too low and paperwork too much of a hassle.” Under ObamaCare, physicians’ Medicare fees are supposed to be cut 21 percent and hospital reimbursements for Medicare patients chopped by $1.3-billion. How long can doctors and hospitals sustain those losses before they’re forced to pull the plug on treating Medicare patients (although some exceptions may be made in dire emergencies)? Count on Congress to use budget tricks like temporary “fixes” to defer those cuts until at least after the November elections.

5. How can President Obama claim that insurance premiums will go down when the very same nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office he quotes, selectively, has said that Obamacare will cause the average family’s premiums to go up by as much as 13 percent by 2016?

6. Remember the “jobs saved or created” canard regarding Obama’s economic stimulus?

The president is repeating that fantasy by applying it to Obamacare. However, the nonpartisan Lewin Group estimates that as many as 600,000 people will lose their jobs due to the onerous new employer health care mandates in Obamacare.

7. Do you realize that Obamacare turns Medicare into what should really be called "Medi-pare"?

Obamacare slices $528-billion from Medicare, including $136-billion carved out of Medicare Advantage. As The Washington Examiner’s Susan Ferrechio has reported, “The Medicare Advantage cuts will force 4.8 million seniors off the popular plan by 2019. An additional $23 billion in cuts to Medicare will come from a panel charged with slashing Medicare spending.”

Those are just some of the gut-wrenching questions about Obamacare that cry out for answers. But as the expression goes, “It’s what you don’t know that really hurts you.” Obamacare is so full of dubious assumptions that in future years we may rename it Obama’s box, as in Pandora’s box.

FOXNews.com - 7 Sickening Questions About Obamacare

[Seshmeister]

Damn, so THAT's why there was so many copies of 5150 being shipped to scotland in 1997?

What am I, your straight man?

[kwame k]

That all sounds like a reason to reduce insurance costs. This law doesn't do that. And neither does Sesh's argument, or your hatred of personal bankruptcy laws.


But barring that - because the politicians will never do that - what are your options? 1) Go without insurance. 2) Pay half your income. 3) Get a second job. Do you really want an option 4) - have Gar pay for it for you? Get real. Man up, and pick 2) or 3) and be done with it. Shit.

You know you just argue for the sake of argument. No one is happy with this bill or purposed bill.

Hatred of bankruptcy laws? WTF, does that have to do with anything. No one should have to file bankruptcy because of an illness, period. That does nothing but put the burden on the rest of us and increases coverage expenses. How you can even say that's a viable option is reckless at best but more to the point, it's fucking stupid.

I have insurance but it's catastrophic insurance and doesn't cover anything except if I cut off a limb or get really fucked up. No preventative care or anything else. No optical or dental either and it's not cheap. Why shouldn't I and every other American have access to better coverage?

Man up? Get the fuck over your delusional self already. Mr pretend you're super rich and have everything, so fuck the rest of the country. You got yours. It's a fucking lame ass argument and more to the point probably fictional.

What you fail to realize is that by having the status quo your's and everyone else's coverage will go up but that's OK with you.

[Seshmeister]

Are you saying it's not good for a person to be able to declare personal bankruptcy? What do you want, a debtor's prison? Indentured servitude?

All you said is that, at worst, it's the same as what Sesh wants - other citizens are picking up your slack because you were too fucking stupid/lazy to provide for your own care.

Why not have private armies then?

I pay plenty of tax. A public healthcare scheme is effectively a big insurance scheme for everyone based on ability to pay. You don't end up with insurance companies skimming 30% off the top and you don't have them telling you aren't covered. Or your kids aren't covered or whatever. You also don't get crazy over diagnosis with all the pointless tests. For example my pal in VA took his girlfriend into the emergency room with toothache and they did a fucking MRI? Who pays for that? The people who pay the premiums that you are so worried about.

This is why proper public healthcare is cheaper and it also happens to be fairer and more moral.

Another thing you don't hear about much from fucking Fox or elsewhere is why you are getting so many scare stories about healthcare.

Quite simply if your healthcare insurance is through your employer that gives them a hell of a lot of extra power over you. If you are say 40 its a brave guy that will tell their boss to go fuck themselves when their kid might stop getting healthcare. Say your wife gets terminal cancer. Over here you could give up your job to spend a year looking after her, what would happen in the US if you tried that?

The people who own your media and pay for your politicians don't want to give up that power over their workers.

[ELVIS]

The 32 million more americans number is BS because it wont take effect until 2019 when the population will be considerably greater...

[Blackflag]

You know you just argue for the sake of argument.

I do not.

No one should have to file bankruptcy because of an illness, period. That does nothing but put the burden on the rest of us and increases coverage expenses. How you can even say that's a viable option is reckless at best but more to the point, it's fucking stupid.

Alright, let's talk stupid. A person who has no insurance gets a deadly illness and has $5k in the bank, and is in debt to the hospital for $300k. What would you like to see happen to them, if not personal bankruptcy?

Man up? Get the fuck over your delusional self already. Mr pretend you're super rich and have everything, so fuck the rest of the country.

Dude, I don't have jack shit. My primary wardrobe is Hanes t-shirts - v-neck. Except for my car. I always have a whip fucking car. That's why I said you'd have to get Gar to pay for it for you.

What you fail to realize is that by having the status quo your's and everyone else's coverage will go up but that's OK with you.

Dude, I'm not happy with the status quo either. I'm just saying this law doesn't change anything for the better. And changing to Sesh's system isn't what people want, either.

[ELVIS]

This is why proper public healthcare is cheaper and it also happens to be fairer and more moral.

What king told you that ??

[Blackflag]

Why not have private armies then?

That's a really great argument and has a lot to do with health care, too. You can go back to sleep now, Sesh.

[Seshmeister]

What king told you that ??

The facts.

Do I need to post that graph for the 10th time...?