debunking the "it wasen't a plane that crashed into the pentagon"

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Keeyth
Thank you for making my point for me on the fuel. They could have easily of made it to the other two planes!

I don't give a rats ass about the transponders. Air traffic control could have picked them up on radar just from being a chunk of metal in the sky. What, do you work for the Bush propoganda campaign?

Hi you all...Hils' brother there. I have to jump in for a quick second.

*German Scientist voice* Vell, Vell, Veeeery Interesting....But Stooooopid!


F16s can refuel in mid-air. It helps if you have a refueling tanker to refuel dipshit. Since they were low on fuel in New York City there is no possible way to go to Pennsylvania, do standard maneuvers, and if nessecary, take hostile action with airial combat procedures. There would not be enough fuel if they even did find the planes. They themselves would run out on the way home or have to make an emergency landing and then possibly be stranded. And that would only make things worse because now you have an expensive aircraft on the ground and they would need to take action to retrieve it.

And what's this you are saying about air traffic? Uh, no. I do hope you never get a job as an air traffic controller. With the transponders off, to search for a plane, you have to go thru what you know. How fast it's going, noise level, height, all that crap. Why, so you can rule out if it's a bird or a bi-plane because old bi-planes do not have transponders. You don't get how big the plane is on the screens they have. With the transponders on, it tells you what type on plane, flight info (detination and all), time of takeoff and landing, and airline. With it off, you see jack shit on a radar, in which case, air traffic wouldn't know anything. It would first look where the plane stopped transponding. But since it did a uturn --



it would be harder to find. How would you know where to start looking?

Closing remarks--

I'm right and you're wrong because i have licenses to do this shit, beotch.

[ELVIS]

Awesome!

[John Ashcroft]

Originally posted by Keeyth
Now here is the funny thing. F-16's don't leave base with half full tanks of gas, they leave with full tanks of gas. The fighter jet has a combat radius of over 1500 square miles. This means that those jets could have been upon the remaining two planes (Pennsylvania and the Pentagon plane) in SECONDS, yet they were called away. They let the other planes continue on to their fates.

Absolutely 100% false. So many factors determine the fuel load any aircraft takes off with. Temperature, weather, wet or dry runway, weapons load, even availablility of tankers can alter the acceptable gross take-off weight (and therefore affecting range). Oh, and by the way, many of the same factors determing range including altitude, barometric pressure, afterburn duration, etc.

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by Keeyth
I don't give a rats ass about the transponders. Air traffic control could have picked them up on radar just from being a chunk of metal in the sky.

uh...air traffic controllers don't have radar that works over long distances. their actual radars are short distance, mostly take-off and landing radars.

when you hear about radar for the duration of the trip, they're talking about secondary radar, which is the transponder signal.




and JA, what the hell do you know about F-16s? where you in the air force or something?!

[John Ashcroft]

Heh heh heh... I've actually got some F-16 sim time (didn't really know what the hell I was doing though...) Anyway, it was fun. But I've got no time in a 16 (The Air Force only gives buddy rides to movie stars and politician's sons...) What I do have is 3200 flight hours in AWACS. I'm not a pilot, as most of you know, but we would all mission plan together for the accomplishment of any mission. To certify as "combat ready" you literally have to know a bit about every crew member's job, not just your own.

Anyway, I've personally assisted in the refuelling of our aircraft many times, adjusting fuel load because of the issues I've mentioned above. Oh, and about ATC, you're dead on KB. ATC uses their IFF system exclusively for long range (I.E. tracking via transponder replies). They only use their radar, which is short range, for final approach (for altitude information on each track, as well as range and azimuth resolution (which is much better with a tracking radar than an interrogator system)).

Anyway, all of which means one thing... Keef is utterly clueless (and full of shit). :D

[Keeyth]

Originally posted by lucky wilbury
no they couldn't. they were down to under half amost a thrid of a tank since going to mach 1 and over burns fuel way fast. they would have fallen out of the sky because they were out of fuel.



do you even know what a transponder is? by your response i guess not. a transponder is a device on most aircrat that give the flt name,speed, altitude automatically. it's a tracking becon. most small planes don't have them they have to check in and identify themselves with air traffic control with they pass through radar coverage areas for airports. on 9-11 the planbes transponders were shut off so on radar all they would appear as is a small non commercial plane. you would have had every fighter in the us military casing down every person who was flying their pipers and cesnas etc etc. radar cand't tell the difference between planes

So you're telling me that a simple flight from Otis air force base to the WTC is going to use all of the jets fuel, huh? Some fighter jet! Hope it never has to see combat if it can't stay in the air for more that a few minutes. I don't buy your lame fuel excuse, sorry.

And if, just for the sake of argument, we did buy your far fetched excuse, why were these the only two planes deployed??? We heard rumors the other hijacked planes might be headed to the White House, so why weren't tere other planes in the air?? Why wasn't there PLENTY of firepower in the air, the MINUTE the first plane hit????

You either work for the Bush administration, or you have earned the title of King Busheep!!

[Ally_Kat]

JA, I know you ain't a pilot, but I just got the cutest image of you in a flight suit...

[Keeyth]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Hi you all...Hils' brother there. I have to jump in for a quick second.

*German Scientist voice* Vell, Vell, Veeeery Interesting....But Stooooopid!


I'm right and you're wrong because i have licenses to do this shit, beotch.

Lame. you're just another Bush Sheep dude. The time difference between when the last plane hit was like an hour after the WTC planes. I think we have not only the technology, but also the extra planes to go out looking, especially after the kind of terror inflicted by the first two planes.

You have a license to do what? Be a MORON, BEEYYOTCH???

[Keeyth]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft


Anyway, all of which means one thing... Keef is utterly clueless (and full of shit). :D

Coming from you that's almost a compliment, for you know naught being the sheep you are. By the way, you read lately about what a psycho you real life namesake has become? Might wanna get a new username, unless you wanna stay on the sinking ship that is the Bush Administration.,..:p :D

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Keeyth
Lame. you're just another Bush Sheep dude.

LMMFAO! Ah, that's classic in only a way I'd know.

So are you calling everybody you argue with a Bush Sheep, pumpkin pie?

[Big Train]

Keeyth says...

And if, just for the sake of argument, we did buy your far fetched excuse, why were these the only two planes deployed??? We heard rumors the other hijacked planes might be headed to the White House, so why weren't tere other planes in the air?? Why wasn't there PLENTY of firepower in the air, the MINUTE the first plane hit????

I say 6 sidewinders a piece , x 2 planes...equals a LOT of firepower. 12 planes could be shot down just over Washington alone, by two planes....see pic is it isn't getting through...

Lame Bushsheep out.

[Snow Ho]

never mind my question was just answered. but another one :
"12 planes could be shot down just over Washington alone, by two planes"
wouldn't more planes though cover more ground??? i don't know anything about the air force.

[Keeyth]

Originally posted by Snow Ho
how many air force planes were sent out after the attack?

Only two... ...and late at that. Rumor has it that Andrews air force base went on alert as soon as the first plane lost transponder contact, but were later given a 'Stand Down' order, which can only come from the National Command (ie; the President)

Their website even stated on 9-11-01 that they had "Readily available fighter jets at the highest state of alert" but the website was altered two days after the attacks to go along with VP Cheneys bullshit statement that there were no fighter jets available.

What utter bullshit from a country with the biggest military in the world.

[Keeyth]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
LMMFAO! Ah, that's classic in only a way I'd know.

So are you calling everybody you argue with a Bush Sheep, pumpkin pie?

If you buy and believe the bullshit that the Bush Administration sells you, then yes, you are a Bush sheep in my opinion. Let's not forget who started calling names either, pumpkin!

[Keeyth]

Originally posted by Snow Ho
never mind my question was just answered. but another one :
"12 planes could be shot down just over Washington alone, by two planes"
wouldn't more planes though cover more ground??? i don't know anything about the air force.

Thank you. Common sense, though rare here, is always welcome...