debunking the "it wasen't a plane that crashed into the pentagon"

[Big Train]

One hell of a coincidence, perhaps. Due to that though, you can't just make the leap and proclaim it to be Bush. How can you eliminate the possibility of hacks into the many systems of those orginizations, which would provide the terrorists with their information just as easily, not to mention a mole. It still requires a leap of faith to say the Bush was the one who did it, a large one.

This website is certainly sketchy too. The website is set up in great detail, operations set up for your "Donations" but if you go to the section called "About Us" it says , "Still to be Done". Who are these people making these accusations? Are they too scared to identify themselves or are they just full of shit?

[lucky wilbury]

Originally posted by Keeyth
No I don't... ...and thanks for the timeline.

8:14 to 8:20 a.m.: American Airlines Flight 11 goes off course and is hijacked


10:06:05 a.m.: According to seismic data, United Airlines Flight 93 crashes near Shanksville, Pennsylvania, in Somerset


Thats almost two hours of hijacked planes flying around an no jets are sent to intercept?? Hello???

thats not two hours of planes flying around highjacked hello. those are differnt planes at different times. each tiem the plane was only highjacked for a few minutes before crashing. in response to your other post about planes being ready now is yes there are planes that are ready now. some are always either a: on the ground or b: in the air on patrol 24/7 over some cities

[lucky wilbury]

Originally posted by Keeyth
First off, there were jets ready. Don't believe everything wilbury feeds you. This crap about not having jets ready since 1992? Does that really make sense to you? Why have our defenses up, all the while increasing the size of our military, and then suddenly it's ok not to have any of it at the ready?

you really are the dumbest person ever. through out the cold war we keep planes on the ready to go intercept planes. the routinly went on patrols from SAC bases all over the nothern half of the usa mostly from alaska maine and north dakota. those patrols were under the command of places like norad who's sole responablity was up until 9-11 to look for and protect from incoming threats. those are the facts. deny them all you want but they are not going to change.

Originally posted by Keeyth
all this after it has been proven we were warned that 9-11 was going to happen within a few days of when it did happen? Fucking grow up. You're the retard if you believe what any Bush supporter or representative feeds you. They have ways to change things to go along with whatever their position or statement is goin to be. Case in point: The Andrews Air Force Base website. It was changed 2 days after 9-11 to state that they did not have ready response fighters at the highest state of alert, only after Dick Cheney made that statement. Prior to that, it said they did have fighter jets ready.

You can find the original website the way it loked before 9-11 at the following sites:

https://www.copvcia.com

or

www.tenc.net

yep and it's not like something can be posted on some nut website to suitetheir views right?

[Keeyth]

Originally posted by Big Train
One hell of a coincidence, perhaps. Due to that though, you can't just make the leap and proclaim it to be Bush. How can you eliminate the possibility of hacks into the many systems of those orginizations, which would provide the terrorists with their information just as easily, not to mention a mole. It still requires a leap of faith to say the Bush was the one who did it, a large one.

Well, just look at who benefited most from it. The Bush and Cheney Oil families. Cheney's Halliburton is making tons and tons of cash on this war, as is the Carlyle group, of which the Bush family has been card carrying members forever. Just use a little common sense and intuition and maybe you'll start to see the truth...

[Keeyth]

Originally posted by lucky wilbury
thats not two hours of planes flying around highjacked hello. those are differnt planes at different times. each tiem the plane was only highjacked for a few minutes before crashing. in response to your other post about planes being ready now is yes there are planes that are ready now. some are always either a: on the ground or b: in the air on patrol 24/7 over some cities

Now who is flip flopping on their points??? Now you are saying Yes we HAVE planes ready??!?!? Then go back to my first point about where the hell were they when the hijackings occurred???

[Keeyth]

Originally posted by lucky wilbury
you really are the dumbest person ever.

That's O.K. with me coming from someone who has lost their credibility based upon their conflicting posts...

[Big Train]

Keeyth,

His article is saying that SINCE 9/11. He hasn't moved an inch from his position.

Cheney does not OWN Haillburton. The money argument is mildly valid. He is making money on the stock he owns but not the MOUNTAINS of money he would if he were the exclusive owner of Halliburton. Certainly not enough to go through all that hassle. Explain to me, in great detail, the exact connection you are making of the financial benefit to the Bushes and Cheneys. Let's leave my intuition out of it. Let's stick to facts.

It is an easier sell to me to say the terrorists paid for some good information and got it. Like all skeptics, the simplest explanation is the usually correct. It is a simple a to b transaction. The Bush/Cheney thing lacks a proper paper trail that would demonstrate their profiting from it. Which would be plainly obvious is they were due to large transactions happening somewhere in the world. Someone would certainly drop a dime on it, for a quick, anynonmous payday.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Keeyth
Now who is flip flopping on their points??? Now you are saying Yes we HAVE planes ready??!?!? Then go back to my first point about where the hell were they when the hijackings occurred???

I don't think you're reading it right.

We used to have planes flying around mainly because of the Cold War. In 1992, we stopped that.

Now, because of what happened on 9/11, we resumed it because of the threat. So NOW they are BACK on standby or whatever the term is.

Lucky's not conflicting anything

[lucky wilbury]

thats is exactly what i said ally. to quote myself:

in response to your other post about planes being ready now is yes there are planes that are ready now. some are always either a: on the ground or b: in the air on patrol 24/7 over some cities

i even posted a whole other thread on this. my postion has NOT changed from the begining

[Keeyth]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
I don't think you're reading it right.

We used to have planes flying around mainly because of the Cold War. In 1992, we stopped that.

Does that REALLY make sense to you? Do you REALLY believe that? What, we were all just so cozy after the 1993 WTC bombing and the 1995 Oklahoma bombing the USS Cole incident and all the other crap happening in the world that we just decided "Let's take our air force military out of the loop, just in case the world is really safe." Is that what it was??
Is that the la-la land that you live in that you would believe that kind of dribble????????

That is a bullshit statement. Our Air Force has NEVER been 'off the clock' people. For 25 years, it has been standard operating procedure that, any time a plane loses transponder contact, or goes off it's course for more than a few minutes without authority, fighter jets are scrambled. Period. Look it up. Standard Operating Procedure folks.

Our skys are far too busy to be lackadaisical about that kind of stuff...

[Ally_Kat]

so are you saying you would want a group of F16's patrolling any area because it had a bomb incident?

[Keeyth]

Originally posted by Big Train
Keeyth,

His article is saying that SINCE 9/11. He hasn't moved an inch from his position.

Cheney does not OWN Haillburton. The money argument is mildly valid. He is making money on the stock he owns but not the MOUNTAINS of money he would if he were the exclusive owner of Halliburton. Certainly not enough to go through all that hassle. Explain to me, in great detail, the exact connection you are making of the financial benefit to the Bushes and Cheneys. Let's leave my intuition out of it. Let's stick to facts.

It is an easier sell to me to say the terrorists paid for some good information and got it. Like all skeptics, the simplest explanation is the usually correct. It is a simple a to b transaction. The Bush/Cheney thing lacks a proper paper trail that would demonstrate their profiting from it. Which would be plainly obvious is they were due to large transactions happening somewhere in the world. Someone would certainly drop a dime on it, for a quick, anynonmous payday.

I'm sorry, but have you looked into any of this? Becasue it almost seems as if you're basing you're entire knowledge of the situation on the content of this thread... ...specifically wilburys posts.

[Keeyth]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
so are you saying you would want a group of F16's patrolling any area because it had a bomb incident?

Yeah, that sounds like what I said, doesn't it?? Get real, will ya? I said your claim that we took the air force off ready standby alert status in 1992 is absolutely ludicrous... ...pay attention.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Keeyth
Does that REALLY make sense to you? Do you REALLY believe that? What, we were all just so cozy after the 1993 WTC bombing and the 1995 Oklahoma bombing the USS Cole incident and all the other crap happening in the world that we just decided "Let's take our air force military out of the loop, just in case the world is really safe." Is that what it was??
Is that the la-la land that you live in that you would believe that kind of dribble????????

That is a bullshit statement. Our Air Force has NEVER been 'off the clock' people. For 25 years, it has been standard operating procedure that, any time a plane loses transponder contact, or goes off it's course for more than a few minutes without authority, fighter jets are scrambled. Period. Look it up. Standard Operating Procedure folks.

Our skys are far too busy to be lackadaisical about that kind of stuff...

It makes perfect sense to me seeing how Clinton cut back money to the military. Keeping planes on standby costs money. When your budget is made significantly smaller, you find areas to cut back and pinch.

[lucky wilbury]

Originally posted by Keeyth
Does that REALLY make sense to you? Do you REALLY believe that? What, we were all just so cozy after the 1993 WTC bombing and the 1995 Oklahoma bombing the USS Cole incident and all the other crap happening in the world that we just decided "Let's take our air force military out of the loop, just in case the world is really safe." Is that what it was??
Is that the la-la land that you live in that you would believe that kind of dribble????????

That is a bullshit statement. Our Air Force has NEVER been 'off the clock' people. For 25 years, it has been standard operating procedure that, any time a plane loses transponder contact, or goes off it's course for more than a few minutes without authority, fighter jets are scrambled. Period. Look it up. Standard Operating Procedure folks.

Our skys are far too busy to be lackadaisical about that kind of stuff...

read the other thread on this. explains the whole thing. i don't need to look it up i can just go on base and ask about it. hell i could just go next door as well oh thats right i forgot to say there's a air force base here in town. and how may fighters planes do they keep on strip alert? zero. how many pilots do they keep suited up? zero. and to be the bringer of bad news but a lot planes in the air don't have transponders on them because they are small planes. also since each airprot and it's corrospondering radar coverage area isn't link to one another there is no way to tell eachairport along a planes route who it is and what their flight plan is. thats why you have to file and follow a flight plan you submit to the faa. and no it's not the procedure to send up fighters right away. the first step is to raise the aircraft on the radio. the second is get another plane in the air to give a visual on it. if they get a visual on it and there is say oh a radio problem they might tip their wings to signal the other plane. in which case the plane will tip them back and in most cases relize the might be on the wrong radio frequency and switch over. happens all the time. that whole procedure might take 20- 30 ins to play out. i can tell you how many times a small plane has landed on base with radio problems.