The Founding Fathers on Religion

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  • Dr. Love
    ROTH ARMY SUPREME
    • Jan 2004
    • 7833

    #16
    Here's some more Jefferson quotes for you, then. May you take them to heart.

    "Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto."

    "Conquest is not in our principles. It is inconsistent with our government."

    "A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circlue of our felicities."

    "Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories."

    "Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny."

    "For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security."

    "Force is the vital principle and immediate parent of despotism."

    "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies."

    "I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country."

    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own."

    "It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world."

    "Leave no authority existing not responsible to the people."

    "My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."

    "Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence."

    "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual."

    "So confident am I in the intentions, as well as wisdom, of the government, that I shall always be satisfied that what is not done, either cannot, or ought not to be done."

    "Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question."

    "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."

    "When a man assumes a public trust he should consider himself a public property."
    Think about those and how they apply to the person in the White House, and those that seek to be there.
    I've got the cure you're thinkin' of.

    http://i.imgur.com/jBw4fCu.gif

    Comment

    • Seshmeister
      ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

      • Oct 2003
      • 35766

      #17
      Don't forget

      "Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites."

      Comment

      • Nitro Express
        DIAMOND STATUS
        • Aug 2004
        • 32942

        #18
        Originally posted by jhale667


        I love it. It's so true. The church's do side with the dictator to save their own asses and keep the scam going.
        No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

        Comment

        • Seshmeister
          ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

          • Oct 2003
          • 35766

          #19

          Comment

          • BigBadBrian
            TOASTMASTER GENERAL
            • Jan 2004
            • 10625

            #20
            Originally posted by Nitro Express
            Interesting is the religious right love to spout how this nation was built on religion but nothing could be further from the truth. It was built on the idea of giving individuals the freedom to pursue their own happiness.
            I'll agree with your second statement, but your first statement uses examples that are completely out of context. I assume your next argument is that the "Founding Fathers" were not Christians, but Deists? Funny thing Deism/Deist - it meant something different to different people 250 years ago. For every quote you used in your first post, I can come up with several countering your point, often from the same person.

            While I agree that this nation was founded without an establishment of a state religion on purpose, and justifiably so, to say that no Christian or religious concepts or doctrine played a part in the formation of this nation is just ludicrous.
            “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

            Comment

            • kwame k
              TOASTMASTER GENERAL
              • Feb 2008
              • 11302

              #21
              Originally posted by BigBadBrian
              For every quote you used in your first post, I can come up with several countering your point, often from the same person.
              Yet, as usual, you give none!
              Originally posted by vandeleur
              E- Jesus . Playing both sides because he didnt understand the argument in the first place :D

              Comment

              • Nitro Express
                DIAMOND STATUS
                • Aug 2004
                • 32942

                #22
                The point I was making was not that the founding fathers were not christian but they believed one's religion or spiritual beliefs had no place in the government. If anything they agreed it was the government's duty to protect individual freedom as long as what you are doing doesn't jeopardize everyone else. Such a system at it's best becomes very creative. One reason things are so boring now is a few corporations have taken over and say they are in charge and individual rights be damned. Then you have all these organized religions siding with the corporations or whatever flavor of the month tyrant is in power.

                If anything the founding fathers understood tyranny. What it is and how it gains control. They also knew organized religion will side with the tyrant as Sesh's photo clearly shows.

                So yes you have the right to believe in what you want but you don't have the right to push it on others and it has no place in the public government.
                No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                Comment

                • jhale667
                  DIAMOND STATUS
                  • Aug 2004
                  • 20929

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Nitro Express
                  So yes you have the right to believe in what you want but you don't have the right to push it on others and it has no place in the public government.

                  BINGO. And that's the part that makes zealotards heads explode.
                  Originally posted by conmee
                  If anyone even thinks about deleting the Muff Thread they are banned.... no questions asked.

                  That is all.

                  Icon.
                  Originally posted by GO-SPURS-GO
                  I've seen prominent hypocrite liberal on this site Jhale667


                  Originally posted by Isaac R.
                  Then it's really true??

                  The Muff Thread is really just GONE ???

                  OMFG...who in their right mind...???
                  Originally posted by eddie78
                  I was wrong about you, brother. You're good.

                  Comment

                  • Jesus Christ
                    Veteran
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 2434

                    #24
                    Just remember, it was the organized religious establishment (Scribes and Pharisees) who demanded My crucifixion. Even the tyrant (or his local representative, Pilate) actually tried to back out of it.

                    Comment

                    • Nitro Express
                      DIAMOND STATUS
                      • Aug 2004
                      • 32942

                      #25
                      Good point there Jesus.
                      No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                      Comment

                      • Nitro Express
                        DIAMOND STATUS
                        • Aug 2004
                        • 32942

                        #26
                        Originally posted by jhale667
                        BINGO. And that's the part that makes zealotards heads explode.
                        It's clear the founding fathers feared tyranny and perfectly knew if religion entered the government, it could become a theocracy. That was the last thing they wanted. You have to allow freedom of worship but you have to keep it out of the government and the number one priority of government is to make sure people's individual rights to pursue their own dreams is protected. This country was supposed to be diverse. It's why they allowed the states to have so much power. You could live where you best fit in. I often think if you don't fit in where you are at, then fucking move to where you do. Not everyone wants the same lifestyle. What irks me is these groups that want the big daddy federal government to force everyone to live according to how one group sees fit. Sorry. It doesn't work that way. If you are gay, you probably would fit in better in West Hollywood or San Fransisco. If you are a bible slapper, hey, move to the bible belt. Live where you fit in.
                        No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                        Comment

                        • Seshmeister
                          ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

                          • Oct 2003
                          • 35766

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Jesus Christ
                          Just remember, it was the organized religious establishment (Scribes and Pharisees) who demanded My crucifixion. Even the tyrant (or his local representative, Pilate) actually tried to back out of it.
                          Sources required.

                          Comment

                          • BigBadBrian
                            TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                            • Jan 2004
                            • 10625

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Nitro Express

                            So yes you have the right to believe in what you want but you don't have the right to push it on others and it has no place in the public government.
                            Give an example. A person's faith is their moral compass. I'm want to know how you're totally going to leave faith out of the thought process when a politician of faith goes to work.

                            Liberals, even Heathen monkeys like those that post on this board, have some set of values they use to come up with the ridiculous viewpoints they share. Shall we leave their morale compass out of the government also?
                            “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

                            Comment

                            • ELVIS
                              Banned
                              • Dec 2003
                              • 44120

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Jesus Christ
                              Just remember, it was the organized religious establishment (Catholics and Mormons) who demanded My crucifixion.

                              Comment

                              • Nitro Express
                                DIAMOND STATUS
                                • Aug 2004
                                • 32942

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Seshmeister
                                Sources required.
                                It's in the New Testament. Have you read the bible Sesh?
                                No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                                Comment

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