Who else could have replaced Dave in 1985?

[VanHalenFan5150]

The only person who can replace Dave doesn't exist. The other people just try and make up what he already made famous.

[Terry]

It wasn't so much that Dave was replaced. By 1985, Roth really didn't want to be there anymore and the Van Halens didn't want him around either. It would have been unrealistic to expect Ed to just curl up, roll over and play dead just because Roth wasn't in the band anymore (Ed taking an extended drunken possum break would come about 15 years later).

What fucked things from the beginning was:

1) Not changing the name of the band

and

2) failing to do 1), Van Hagar at least having the common courtesy / sense not to shit all over Dave (and the music CVH made which suffered because of Dave's 'substandard' vocal range) in the media before the band had so much as released a single note of music with their new singer. I mean, put Hagar to one side. It just didn't make sense for the band and ANY new singer to take potshots at Roth via the press. Why bother stirring up the possibility of alienating whatever percentage of the fanbase you spent the last 11 years building by doing that? Changing singers without losing a chunk of your audience is tough enough as it is, so why make it harder? And then following up the half-year press campaign with a lame pop turd like Why Can't This Be Love? Are you fucking kidding?

Only thing I can figure is Ed started buying into what the mainstream music press were blathering about when they claimed that Dave was holding the group back because of his party image, and Ed thought the band was more about his guitar abilities than anything else.

Sure, they had initial success with 5150. However, 1984 was such a huge album that virtually ANY follow-up would have moved a lot of units. Every album afterwards sold less than the one before. Apparently none of that registered with the Van Halens, because they attempted the same bullshit in 1996, and it backfired on them in such a manner that was bittersweet for me because, although they deserved what they got, the whole shitty business cratered the last, best chance for a productive reunion with the original lineup that could have went beyond a typical reunion cash grab.

All of the above is kinda moot, because Van Halen made a go of it with two other singers after Roth and came up short twice. It should be readily apparent that unless one is an Eddie Grunt and doesn't really give a shit about the tunes (and just wants to see Ed wank out Eruption for the umpteen billionth time), without Roth the band is pretty much worthless.

[Marcus]

But how did it last for as long as it did?

I mean, on paper Sammy was a stupid choice. But how did he make it work? You can't argue that Van Halen was still a big draw when he was there.
I'm thinking their manager Ed Leffler (who was Sammy's manager...) was the mastermind who kept it going. Someone who sold Van Hagar to a whole new group of fans.
It also didn't hurt that from 1985 - 1996, Eddie was on top of his game pretty much.

[Terry]

It lasted as long as it did because, indeed, Van Hagar did appeal to a whole new group of fans, most of whom started hopping on the Van Halen bandwagon when Jump came out and the band lightened up their touch a bit.

Before 1984 came out, Van Halen were by and large too badass and dangerous to appeal to the large chunk of brain dead fuckwits who like pop 40 rock. The direction the band went with Hagar fit in perfectly with the bland, useless 'rock' fodder such lame acts as Bon Jovi, Posion, Winger and the like were churning out. Who gives a fuck how much it sold? It was still wuss rock listened to by limp-wristed wannabe rock fans who (much like Hagar) enjoyed sacreligiously linking via use of the same band name what Van Halen were putting out in the late 1980s to the real deal when Roth was around.

I mean, let's not confuse the fact that a large chunk of the American public gladly accept mediocre standards regarding their entertainment with the notion that just because Van Hagar sold some records and didn't collapse overnight the band was therefore producing anything decent.

What's in a name? Everything. Just ask Gene Simmons.

[POJO_Risin]

I dunno if the tour would have been that great. Plant wasn't singing all that great in the Zep "reunion" at Live Aid.

Yeah...but that was a one-off...for a VH tour...my guess is his voice would be in better shape...

Here's the thing...Plant fronting spED, phALEX and RolyPoly would be enough in itself...the singing would be secondary...at least at first...

[POJO_Risin]

It lasted as long as it did because, indeed, Van Hagar did appeal to a whole new group of fans, most of whom started hopping on the Van Halen bandwagon when Jump came out and the band lightened up their touch a bit.

Before 1984 came out, Van Halen were by and large too badass and dangerous to appeal to the large chunk of brain dead fuckwits who like pop 40 rock. The direction the band went with Hagar fit in perfectly with the bland, useless 'rock' fodder such lame acts as Bon Jovi, Posion, Winger and the like were churning out. Who gives a fuck how much it sold? It was still wuss rock listened to by limp-wristed wannabe rock fans who (much like Hagar) enjoyed sacreligiously linking via use of the same band name what Van Halen were putting out in the late 1980s to the real deal when Roth was around.

I mean, let's not confuse the fact that a large chunk of the American public gladly accept mediocre standards regarding their entertainment with the notion that just because Van Hagar sold some records and didn't collapse overnight the band was therefore producing anything decent.

What's in a name? Everything. Just ask Gene Simmons.

Being a VH fan is a bit more complicated than just following the cheesy belief that people followed because VH turned into Winger.

While that's true...there's a lot more to it.

Don't forget...when Van Halen ceased to exist in 1985, there weren't billions of fans rallying around Roth. There were most of US...but there was an equal amount that I would say didn't follow Bettey, but followed spED.

Hell...if you played guitar...and hated Hagar...YOU followed spED. It's interesting listening to the masses that "follow Roth" talk about how they never listened to a second of Hagar...then post shit in our tech forum about how his sound changed during the Midler years.

OF COURSE YOU KEPT LISTENING TO EDDIE...other than Rolling Stone, that ranked him the 70th most influential guitarist of all time (which makes me want to rip the wiring out of my house, even though I think spED is a fucking moron), many were still curious about dED, and his playing. nocrED is a moron, but I loved his fucking drunken discoveries.

Van Halen stayed relevant because even though suckED was a different guitar player...there were still a large group of Non-Roth fans...and Eddie fans...then ultimately Bette fans. That's enough to keep any band relevant.

They also were extremely public...and fucking got along. While it nearly put most of us in AA, they were still amusing and MTV whored it up...in particular...Kurt Loder and that fucking walking dead...John Norris.

EVH was rock and roll royalty...whether we liked it or not...and there was enough mystery about the 1985 incident that he maintained that pantheon until 1996...when it was blazing apparent that dickhED and his brother phALic were giant fucking pussies...and out of their mind.

I mean...seriously...we were all nodding our head with fucking Bette in 1996...saying, "THERE IT FUCKING IS...SAME FUCKING DEAL...DIFFERENT DECADE."

Of course...that was generally followed by gagging...a Bette Midler joke...and being forced by your own self-conscious to write FAGar's name on a piece of paper...fold it up...then take a shit on it on your kitchen floor...

...or was that just me?

[FORD]

Plant's voice shouldn't have been that out of shape, since he did solo tours in 83 and 85 and had two or three solo records in the can by then. Granted, his solo material was considerably more laid back than the Zeppelin stuff and songs like "Sea of Love" and "Big Log" didn't require him to scream the way he did back in 1971. But the Van Halen songs would have put him back in that range.

Hell, even if he sang like shit, it would have been interesting to see, even for one show though.

[POJO_Risin]

The only way out for VH wouldn't have been changing the name of the band. Seriously...I WOULDN'T HAVE CHANGED THE FUCKING NAME OF THE BAND. That's damned career suicide. While THEY SHOULD HAVE...

...I think we all get why they didn't. That drunk fuck wasn't about to take HIS NAME off the band name.

Nope...he and his brother should have just gotten rid of Mike...and done other shit...gone the direction of Carlos Santana...like they wanted to.

More than likely...they would have kept more Roth fans...and kept their base population...

They would have been the most sought after musicians not connected to a band...and could have put out a series of shit (and we all know dED would have played his guitar with his pubic hair in front of a pack of Yak back then) with whomever the fuck he wanted too...under the name EDWARD VAN HALEN. It still gives him the use of the band name...but isn't a fucking squat in the kitchen to all the fans that realized Van Halen was dead....

No pun intended...

[POJO_Risin]

Plant's voice shouldn't have been that out of shape, since he did solo tours in 83 and 85 and had two or three solo records in the can by then. Granted, his solo material was considerably more laid back than the Zeppelin stuff and songs like "Sea of Love" and "Big Log" didn't require him to scream the way he did back in 1971. But the Van Halen songs would have put him back in that range.

Hell, even if he sang like shit, it would have been interesting to see, even for one show though.

While I just don't SEE it...

I would have loved to have seen it...

[VanHalenFan5150]

For the Hagar years, I liked his playing the most in 1986, and in 1990. Top of the game, untouchable.

[VAiN]

For the Hagar years, I liked his playing the most in 1986, and in 1990. Top of the game, untouchable.

While I agree that EVH was playing very well in those years, I feel that he was completely lacking any/all feeling and going-for-itness that got him to where he was. Listening to a young Eddie, 76-81, to me is just pure guitar bliss. The fire, the speed and just down right nasty. Without a doubt that's Dave's influence pushing Ed. By 1986, Ed was in complete auto-pilot and he broke off the switch and left it that way. Nothing on any van hagar album has any 'wow' factor as a player. I was one of those 'Eddie fans' from 86-95 and would listen to the albums, tune out the vocals as hard as humanly possible and try to listen to whatever bits and pieces of Ed's playing that sounded a little bit like anything from the CVH era... but always came up a little short...

[Cato]

Me...

[78/84 guy]

While I agree that EVH was playing very well in those years, I feel that he was completely lacking any/all feeling and going-for-itness that got him to where he was. Listening to a young Eddie, 76-81, to me is just pure guitar bliss. The fire, the speed and just down right nasty. Without a doubt that's Dave's influence pushing Ed. By 1986, Ed was in complete auto-pilot and he broke off the switch and left it that way. Nothing on any van hagar album has any 'wow' factor as a player. I was one of those 'Eddie fans' from 86-95 and would listen to the albums, tune out the vocals as hard as humanly possible and try to listen to whatever bits and pieces of Ed's playing that sounded a little bit like anything from the CVH era... but always came up a little short...

I dissagree. Ed was on fire on 5150. His sound changed again from 1984 but the playing is fast and wierd on that whole album. Except Way Can't I lick Muff. (LAME SONG !!!) 0u812 has some good playing on it, but really flat production and Sammy's rotten lyric's ruined Ed's great moment's on it. F.U.C.K. just sucked, that's when Ed was happy just playing bare cords on everything. I liked the tune were he is pushing the bar down on the whole tune , Can't remember the name of it, and The Dream Is Over. The heavy production was good thank's too Andy Johns but Ed's playing was flat. Sam's worst lyric's ever are on this cd. Balance had a few good heavy moment's but it is all over the place.

[lesfunk]

Me...

It's always about you isn't it? baka

[sadaist]

Ed was on fire on 5150..

You got that right. And so was Dave on EEAS. I still feel cheated by what should have been in 1986. Dave was at his very peak, Eddie was at his peak....should have been together. I saw both concerts and was blown away by each guys performance. Can only imagine how epic it would have been had they stayed together at least 1 more album. But then, a big part why each guy was at his best was to outdo the other. Prove em wrong. Make a point.

Eddies best live recordings are when he was wearing those damn pink parachute pants. Sad as it is, he was just perfect then. Very bittersweet to watch those.