Any thoughts on the new 23 trillion cost of free healthcare?

[FORD]

You can call me Al if you like..

How about I call you a douchebag, GAyR?

[Sucker of Satan's Penis]

You did not receive permission to address Allah like a DIQ
HEAD!

One (1) groan for you, Son of Whore..

[FORD]

Your new alias sucks even worse than Blumpkin Chump.

[Sucker of Satan's Penis]

you take that back

[Blackflag]

Your new alias sucks even worse than Blumpkin Chump.

Dude, look in a mirror.

[FORD]

Funniest thing about this latest lame alias, is that you probably couldn't even find Mecca on a map.

[houseofpain]

Okay, being the guy here with 15 years experience in healthcare, I'm going to start tell everyone one time why I think its wrong.

1) What's the incentive for the docs? Or for that matter, the kids thinking about medschool? I mean, in all seriousness, 90% of these people are INFINITELY smarter than you and I, but what is the incentive to go into a speciality such as cardiology, orthopoedics, OB/GYN, neurology etc.? Why should I specialize when it has no value. And since I can't PRACTICE MEDICINE, but rather I have to do what a government agency tells me to do, why do I care?

2) You gotta staff those hospitals with a variety of ancillary staff. I pretty much hate nurses (glorified button pushers), but now why the hell would any of them consider nursing school since they are no longer patient advocates.

3) The stuff with the elderly...everybody is fucked up on this. Youthanasia is pretty fucking illegal in this country, so why does the government get to play God? Especially since they won't let God in anything else, unless his name is Allah...Guys, I agree, there's something to be said for quality of life and productivity to society. Here's what's really fucked up. Social Security was always intended to be used by the old and paid for by the young. Nobody just thought preventative medicine would help people live to 90 on a regular basis. But why the fuck do I care, I'm 36, I got about 30 good years left if my family history indicates anything.

4) Here's a scenario that's going to fuck you up so try to stay with it, I'm going to be across the board:

1999 - 46 year old White male, non-smoker, private insurance (HMO), comes in to the ER complaining on shortness of breath. On ECG its revealed he has a widened QRS Complex (suggests heart failure) and is bradycardiac (slow rhythm). He is sent to the cardiac cath lab, where on catheterization, its revealed that he has blockage in all 3 major coronary arteries, and 2 of the minor branches, and an ejection fraction of 23. Patient is very obviously in congestive heart failure, and at risk for sudden death syndrome. He needs to recieve Cardiac Re-Synchronization Therapy (bi-ventricular defib I will reference this later) to cure the CHF before he can be stable enough to be bypassed. Everything goes off as planned, and the patient is doing well 8 weeks post CRT/6 weeks post quintuple bypass surgery.

headed to the future, 2005: Needs to have the Bi-ventricular defib replaced to continue receiving CRT. Pay attention class...the bi-v defib's battery typically needs to be replaced every 7 years, 5 if the patient's co-morbidities make it more active. BUT everytime you open that pocket up, the risk of infection goes up. Nevertheless, they do it in 2005, the patient tolerates it well, and somehow manages not to present himself with an infection.

headed to the future again 2011: Patient needs to have the battery replaced again. Universal Healthcare Plan tells the doctor which brand to use, which model to use, what day of the week to do the procedure. A) they're going to say use the cheapest, not the best brand, then they are going to say use the cheapest model as well. Guys I'm talking about a life saving device that I hope none of you or your families ever have to deal with. But because they've told us we're going to use a cheap brand, the patient is coming back sooner, and they told us to use the cheapest model, so now that 5-7 years is now 3-4 years. And oh, by the way, the patient had to wait 18 months to get the new battery, the old one was dead for 9 months, and CHF had set in again and we have to nurse the guy back to productivity, which screws the system to the tune of about $175,000 per patient, per time. But Lord forbid we let the doctor practice medicine, and here's a new twist, we're not even considering preventative medicine any more.

It gets better, 2013, the electrophysiologic cardiologist who implanted the devices discovers that his patient is running an unexplained fever. Why? Because in 20011, the doctor had the pocket opened too long because of all the hoops he had to jump through to get the patient on the table, and for the 4th off brand pacer company to find their cheap model (and here's where it really affects me) and one of their 8 reps that covers the whole fucking country, and the Phillipinnes (don't laugh, this will be true) couldn't get their shit together quick enough to close the pocket, and remember, everytime we open it up, the patient is at a higher risk for developing an infection. So now we have to get the bi-v defib, the atrial lead, the right ventricular lead, and the left ventricular lead out, because the infected pocket is just growing shit that crawls down those leads into the heart and the gold standard therapy is call the laser rep, lets reopen the pocket (which smells great by the way with all this shit baking in there), get a lead locking device on all 3 of those leads, and pass the laser catheter over all 3 leads to ablate the leads away from the scar tissue so you can pull them out. Send the leads and bi-v defib to patholgy to be cultured, drop lots of antibiotics into the pocket directly, sew it up, admit the patient to the hospital and treat with 5-10 days of antibiotic therapy. BUT WAIT!!!!!! Universal Healthcare isn't a fan of the laser because the one company that makes it (Spectranetics) does not budge on pricing, and also does not, nor will not contribute to a healthcare lobby. They say, you need to find a differeent way to treat that patient. WAIT A FUCKING SECOND! I thought the doctor got paid to practice medicine not the fucking washington suits?

You laugh, you think I'm nuts. Healthcare is 1/7th of the U.S. Economy. If there is no incentive to practice medicine, there is no incentive for my company to invest in R&D, and there's no incentive to cure rather than treat patients. Why the fuck do you think healthcare powerhouses like Columbia went out of business? You can't take a bunch of businessmen and put them in a room and let them decide what the best way to practice medicine is. That's why Columbia went belly up. And the best part is Columbia basically turned into 3 different companies, that all are buying hospitals and their business models look exactly like Columbia's. I hope those hospitals are looking forward to committing fraud because that is what's coming. Guys, Americans don't go to Canada, France, NewZealand, Or England to have procedures done. However, Canadiens, French pussies, New Zealanders, and the Brits come here. Because we have the best healthcare in the world. And lots of American docs go to third world countries on medical missions. You might as well count on that being gone too. They won't be able to get suture and sponges, let alone anti-biotics.

No Doubt it needs reformed, but universal healthcare isn't the answer.

[houseofpain]

and no, I don't work for Spectranetics. I am a sales rep as most of you know. I'll not tell you the company, but given my history ad how many of you guys know me, its pretty safe to say I sell to cardiologists.

[FORD]

Healthcare reform, as its currently being discussed in this country, is about overhauling (or my preference would be eliminating) the corporate insurance system. The scenario you describe would seem to require a lot more than that (government owned hospitals, etc.)

It's the insurance companies now that refuse treatment, or try to force it on the cheap to maximize their profits. And it's also the insurance companies that create all the extra paperwork and "hoops you have to jump through to get the patient on the table".

And also, if more people can see a doctor on a regular basis, doctors & hospitals will eventually have to buy more equipment, so more sales for you!

[GAR]

Why is it cool for you to pay for an Iraqi doctors child to be killed yet you worry so much about some cells in an American whore?

It's cool because we're nipping the problem in the bud, from them growing up and blowing themselves up regardless of what happens if our military are there or not.

[GAR]

Healthcare reform, as its currently being discussed in this country, is about overhauling (or my preference would be eliminating) the corporate insurance system. The scenario you describe would seem to require a lot more than that (government owned hospitals, etc.)

It's the insurance companies now that refuse treatment, or try to force it on the cheap to maximize their profits. And it's also the insurance companies that create all the extra paperwork and "hoops you have to jump through to get the patient on the table".

And also, if more people can see a doctor on a regular basis, doctors & hospitals will eventually have to buy more equipment, so more sales for you!

You're so promiseblinded that you can't see what's going on regarding what's being called "healthcare reform" which is really "govt mandated health insurance."

For example, did you know that if you don't pay under the goverment's plan, you'll be penalized almost 4% and if you're an employer and don't sign up and diss your current plan, you'll be penalized almost twice that?

Can't you see Obama's been lying to you the whole time about not taxing those under 250K/ann. income?

Why won't you confess your boy fuckin' outright lied to the world in order to gain the oval office? Why FORD

[FORD]

You're so promiseblinded that you can't see what's going on regarding what's being called "healthcare reform" which is really "govt mandated health insurance."

For example, did you know that if you don't pay under the goverment's plan, you'll be penalized almost 4% and if you're an employer and don't sign up and diss your current plan, you'll be penalized almost twice that?

That's not the plan I'm talking about at all. That's the RomneyHillaryCare bullshit that people like Baucus and Schumer are trying force through under the name of "bipartisanship"

And if Obama signs a piece of shit like that, I'll be the first one to call him a fucking idiot for doing so. But he said he would veto any bill without a real public option, so we'll see........

[ELVIS]

It's the insurance companies now that refuse treatment, or try to force it on the cheap to maximize their profits. And it's also the insurance companies that create all the extra paperwork and "hoops you have to jump through to get the patient on the table".

So, you think under Oblamma care, this will somehow decrease ??

Tell me it ain't so...tell me it ain't so...

[ELVIS]

Nice post HOP, but nurses are NOT "glorified button pushers" at least not most, but in the defense of the ones that are, it's because of liability issues, and yes FORD, insurance companies are more concerned about documentation than actually delivering care...These problems are bound to multiply under Oblamma care...

And HOP, your statement of "everytime you open that pocket up, the risk of infection goes up" is a bit misleading. Sure, there's risk of infection with any surgical procedure, but replacing a pacemaker is pretty straightfoward these days. Now, replacing a pacer with a pre-infected piece of chinese garbage isn't out of the realm of possibilities, but the rest of your story is a fictional, worst case scenario. But I get your point and i'm totally with you...

BTW, Columbia went belly up because they had two sets of books. They were cheating the system in terms of billing insurance companies the costs of entire hospital floors being filled to capacity, when, in fact, they were EMPTY!

And I agree...

Universal healthcare isn't the answer, and it does need some reform. BUT NOT FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!

[ELVIS]

And also, if more people can see a doctor on a regular basis, doctors & hospitals will eventually have to buy more equipment, so more sales for you!

With what money ??