Any thoughts on the new 23 trillion cost of free healthcare?

[Baby's On Fire]

Alternative medicine which is tested and shown to work is called medicine.

Why would you want public money to be pissed away and wasted on a bunch of conmen who lie to people in their most vinerable and desparate times in order to defraud them? The FDA is quite right.

Ludicrously until very recently some public money in the UK was wasted on homeopathy, might as well buy some magic beans...

I have to disagree strongly. "Medicine" is synthetic chemicals created as derivatives of natural substances. All mand made chemicals are toxic, including so-called "medicine". That is what causes side effects...toxicity.

It is well-proven that many natural compounds can prevent and cure many diseases. However, that is a topic for a different thread.

I wasn't suggesting social healthcare should cover alternative remedies and homeopathy, as much as I believe in it. I was simply agreeing with you that it isn't quite true that people from around The World travel to the US for special healthcare. Certain operations, perhaps. But not for treatments.

But, if a patient chooses to pursue "alternative therapy" that should be his or her right. Why should only the drug comapnies be paid? Drug side effects are within the top 3 causes of death in the USA.........

[Seshmeister]

But, if a patient chooses to pursue "alternative therapy" that should be his or her right.

Because it doesn't work it shouldn't be paid for by everyone else.

Asprin comes from tree bark but can be proved to work so it is called medicine.

Homeopathy is nonsense 19th century pretend so it isn't called medicine.

[Blackflag]

All man made chemicals are toxic, including so-called "medicine".

?

But, if a patient chooses to pursue "alternative therapy" that should be his or her right.

Nobody's stopping you from pursuing your "alternative therapies" on your own...

[Baby's On Fire]

White willow bark existed during that period.

There are NO DRUGS ever or will be invented that aren't derivatives of natural compounds. The only reason for a pharmaceutical industry is that natural substances cannot be patented and therefore there is no way to charge astronomical rates.

And by the way, aspirin is not technically a drug or medicine. It is nothing more than ASA, standardized from white willow bark. The same way a vitmain is a standardized extract from a plant.

Aspirin is a natural compound. But that is another thread perhaps later.

In any event, the patient should ALWAYS be allowed to choose his or her "medicine". Why should it just be pharmaceuticals?

Subscription drugs are proven to kill people (via side effects, not just abuse) and yet the government allows them (forces them) to take drugs.........

Hypocrisy at it's most blatant.

[Baby's On Fire]

?


Nobody's stopping you from pursuing your "alternative therapies" on your own...

If you don't believe man made chemicals (including drugs) are all toxic, go do some research. Go read about evolution and the human genome. Or all you have to do is watch a drug company commercial, and watch the long list of side effects that occur. What do you think side effects are? They're your body reacting to the toxicity.


As for pursuing alternative therapies.....socialized healthcare prevents it except for doing so on one's own. And so does medical insurance covergae as well. Point is, THE PATIENT should decide what to use or not use, not the insurance company or health care provider.

Whether or not something "works" has nothing to do with it. It is the drug company stranglehold that forces the use of so-called medicine, and excludes natural remedies. Or maybe you think the drug companies really truly care about your health?




So if drugs are covered, why not alternative therapies, at the patient's choice?

I though that was democracy? A right to choose?

[Big Train]

True, but socialized healthcare prevents it. And so does insurance covergae as well. Point is, THE PATIENT should decide what to use or not use, not the insurance company or health care provider.

So if drugs are covered, why not alternative therapies, at the patient's choice?

I though that was democracy? A right to choose?

Well, in a capitalist society, an ins company could spring up and offer an "alt therapies" policy and cover all this sort of thing. But in Barry O's and Ford's world, NEVER. Single payer damnit!!

[Baby's On Fire]

I'll bet you the drug industry would try and squash that insurance company.

Here is a single example but a great example of the pharmaceutical indsutry KNOWING that natural compounds can prevent disease, and they are trying to not only stop it's use, but is trying to force the FDA to claim it is a drug, even though it is an entirely natural compound.

Pyridoxamine is an entirely natural compound occuring in food. Anyone can buy it as a supplement, just like you can vitamin C for example. (You can lresearch pyridoxamine if you don't believ it).

Now here is an excerpt of an article about the drug industry trying to force the FDA to claim it is a drug, even thoguh the FDA's own rules already agree it is NOT a drug and cannot be classified a drug under law....


The FDA’s Position
Kidney disease causes almost 500,000 Americans to require dialysis or a transplant.22 Diabetes is the leading cause of end-stage kidney disease.23 With today’s epidemic of type 2 diabetes, the market for a drug that protects against diabetic complications is huge.

Based on scientific data documenting its remarkable biologic effects, a drug company paid for studies to prove the efficacy of pyridoxamine in protecting against diabetic complications.

One of these studies showed that pyridoxamine slowed the rate of rise of a marker of kidney failure (creatinine) by 68% and improved certain parameters of kidney function in humans.24 This company spent about $100 million funding various pyridoxamine studies before it ran out of money.25 The FDA wants to protect pharmaceutical financial interests, even if pyridoxamine is never approved as a new drug. According to the FDA, pyridoxamine cannot be marketed as a dietary supplement because:

“pyridoxamine is authorized for investigation as a new drug for which substantial clinical investigations have been conducted and their existence made public…”21

The FDA’s twisted position is that if vitamin companies can offer low-cost pyridoxamine supplements, then there is no incentive for a drug company to invest hundreds of millions of dollars getting it approved as a prescription drug. Said differently, to protect the financial interests of a pharmaceutical company, the FDA is willing to deny every health-conscious American access to the life-saving benefits of pyridoxamine, which include preventing the very disease the drug company is seeking to have pyridoxamine approved to treat!

[Big Train]

Not really, they would be open for business, but it would be a small business, like pet ins. Too small to bother with for big companies.

One of the reasons drugs are so high risk is the FDA approval process, which is essentially an eloborate, "how many angles can this be sued from", as opposed to "how effective is this" type process. A lot of alt. therapies wouldn't pass either test based on their claims, although perhaps some would.

[Baby's On Fire]

The drug companies likely wouldn't get sued and would probably win.

They have the almight disclaimers and side effect warnings, some of which are literally sudden death.

They got all the angles covered.

No natural substance is gonna kill you or hurt you, provided you don't really overdo it. Water can even kill you if you drink too much.

Drug comapnies are in business to make money, NOT to cure you or prevent disease. Money is in sickness and prolonged life, and then death. There is very little money in prevention or God forbid a real cure.

No magic pill is gonna cure a disease. But natural compounds in combinatioins can, provided they are used long-term and to the exclusion of things causing the disease.

Example: it is a proven and verifiable fact that curcumin (turmeric extract) can stop and reverse colon cancer.

Look it up yourself if you don't believe me.

The drug companies DO NOT want this type of information to get out to the general public, and use the FDA to bully anyone touting claims on the health benefits of anything.

A few years ago, the FDA literally raided cherry orchards for saying nothing more than cherries are good for you.

[Seshmeister]

The drug companies likely wouldn't get sued and would probably win.

They have the almight disclaimers and side effect warnings, some of which are literally sudden death.

They got all the angles covered.

No natural substance is gonna kill you or hurt you, provided you don't really overdo it. Water can even kill you if you drink too much.

I don't hold with this 'natural=good' 'man made=bad' ethos. I see it a lot and I can see the comfort in it's simplicity but there are lots of things out there that are 'natural' that will kill you. Snake venom, arsenic, nightshade, wedding cake etc etc.

Living beyond 40 isn't really natural for humans.

What could be more natural than childbirth and look how dangerous that was to mothers before we had modern medicine.

Also if you are going to go 'natural' that should really mean no dairy products since we only developed tolerence to them about 15000 years ago.

Everyone should be completely free to do whatever they like if it doesn't harm others but you can't have publically funded alternative medicine if there is no proof that it works. There has to be empirical proof of the efficacy of a treatment whether it be a modern drug or rubbing a crystal on your nuts.

[Baby's On Fire]

I wasn't talking about snake venom.

But arsenic is an essential nutrient for humans, just in miniscule amounts obtained in food. There is arsenic in apples....and wedding cake isn't natural.

Sesh, I do believe today you are talking out of your ass.

It's simple, any made made chemical is toxic to the human genome. Humans have not evolved to adapt to any of it. And by the way dairy is still toxic to humans. Despite the bullshit marketing of the milk industry. And milk is also BAD for your bones, because it's incredibly acidic inside the body, which causes boines to release minerals to neutralize the acidic blood.

It takes hundreds-of-thousands of years for the human genome to adapt. Even the great Stephen Hawking has stated that humans are the same at the genome level we were 150, 000 years ago.

[Blackflag]

If you don't believe man made chemicals (including drugs) are all toxic, go do some research.

Hershey's chocolate is man made. And that's good enough for me.

As for pursuing alternative therapies.....socialized healthcare prevents it except for doing so on one's own.

So go do it on your own. What do you want, a fucking cookie? Are you really saying there should be no regulation over drugs? Any company can sell whatever they want, and your insurance company has to pay for it, too? Seriously?

Whether or not something "works" has nothing to do with it.

Uh... what??

[LoungeMachine]

...and wedding cake isn't natural.

.

It's actually fatal.



One bite and life is over.....

[Baby's On Fire]

I'm saying there are very little regulations over the drugs.

Any regulation has little to do with true public safety, because the drugs themselves are toxic.

Once again, the drug companies have total dominance over the FDA. Read the article I posted.

Regulation has nothing to do with your health; it's all about protecting the drug companies' patents and making it appear as though the drugs are safe.

They are not safe. If they were safe there wouldn't be such severe side effects. Just watch the next drug commercial on CNN, and be in awe at the side effects rhymed off quickly at the end. No joke,. I remember a PMS drug ad where the risks included sudden death! Advertised right on CNN. It's astonishing.

The reason for those side effects being rhymed off are for protection against lawsuits...

"Well, we TOLD YOU there was a risk of sudden death, but you still decided to take the drug. It's not our fault".

It's all a sham.

[Blackflag]

It's all a sham.

So don't take the drugs. Nobody's forcing you to, dickhead!

You act like somebody's holding you down and forcing you to take pharmaceuticals...while simultaneously preventing you from going and spending your $10 on powdered deer penis.

Nobody cares what you do, d-bag. Go for it.