The War is Bullshit

[ctiger2]

Tell me the world is not a better place with Saddam out of the picture... They may have gone to war for (in hindsight wrong reasons) but the end result was good for the USA. The USA is where I live.

W in '04.

[Big Train]

still trying to see what people think we went in there for? I want to hear not only from liberals but conservatives. If WMD's weren't a reason (let's just assume for the sake of argument) what were the important secondary reasons we went in there? I'm sure I'll hear a lot about oil, but I want to hear the rest of the case as it's understood to be.

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Rikk
It's posts like this that make me smile and sigh relief, knowing which dumbasses will be beaten this November. If this is the attitude and intelligence you find in Bush-supporters, if questioning any government action or analyzing a situation beyond what Rumsfeld says is happening means an idiot reads that as hating his country, then bring it on. What is "loving the U.S." then? Hating every other country and not questioning any U.S. violence whatsoever? I guess Vietnam was right too, huh? And I guess not going into Rwanda to prevent a genocide was right too, because that's what the U.S. did, huh?

And fuck Kerry? Well, good...I'm glad to see you have your arguing skills worked out.

Rikk, I say, "bring it on" to them, too They coined the phrase. I like to use it, too.:D

I can and I can't believe some guy in this thread said I "hate America" and implying that people like you "hate" America, too.

Kerry isn't for pulling U.S. bases out of the Middle East either. No matter who wins there will be fighting in the streets.. of Badhdad? Of New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit "burn baby burn," Chicago, Atlanta, Miami, well, you get the idea, sadly.

It's coming no matter which "skull & bonesmen" get in the White House this fall. The war for the fall of America is underway by the one world government and they don't like losing.

But they're going to lose.



P

[Marlowe01]

I'm so SICK of turning on the news every morning and having to hear about TERROR or the word terror or the word TERRORISM. Bush doesn't realize that by trying to play "police of the world" that it's pissing off every country on the planet. America is gonna be fucked pretty soon when other countries start to think WE are a threat. Remember: we're fighting a war because a country COULD attack us, but has no reason to. Bush=FUCKING MORON.

[Rikk]

Originally posted by Marlowe01
I'm so SICK of turning on the news every morning and having to hear about TERROR or the word terror or the word TERRORISM. Bush doesn't realize that by trying to play "police of the world" that it's pissing off every country on the planet. America is gonna be fucked pretty soon when other countries start to think WE are a threat. Remember: we're fighting a war because a country COULD attack us, but has no reason to. Bush=FUCKING MORON.

Couldn't agree with you more. Has anybody ever heard the story NEVER CRY WOLF? Bush and his dad's friends are hurting the U.S.'s reputation just to make money for him and his friends. And it's funny how much the U.S.'s world-reputation has been damaged between September 11 and now. There's no more pity...just anger and hatred.

And I'm tired of people thinking that the only things that matter are direct U.S. interests. Number 1, going to war wasn't really in the country's best interests...just certain interested parties. Number 2, how you're perceived in the world community will certainly affect your future well-being. This is more and more an international business and social community. Denying this is completely ignorant.

Antagonizing countries even further and teaching citizens that wars don't always NEED to be fought can hurt the country's future place in the international community, can antagonize enemies and provoke future attacks, and also causes American citizens to further mistrust their own government. Just look at how divided the country is now. And crying "The U.S. is not a democracy, it's a Republic" makes me laugh even more. Saying this is all justified because the U.S. isn't a democracy in the first place just stresses the point even further at how much people are willing to dump free-thinking in order to protect their government's reputation...at any cost.

[Keeyth]

Originally posted by Big Train
still trying to see what people think we went in there for? I want to hear not only from liberals but conservatives. If WMD's weren't a reason (let's just assume for the sake of argument) what were the important secondary reasons we went in there? I'm sure I'll hear a lot about oil, but I want to hear the rest of the case as it's understood to be.

Drugs and Oil. Starting with the poppy fields in Afghanistan... ...If the CIA didn't deal drugs, the already weakened American economy would collapse... ...and Bush and Cheney are oil Barons in their own right, lining their pockets and the pockets of their companies (Haliburton and the Carlyle Group) every step of the way... ...Iraq was just an ego boost for little Georgie to get the big bad man Daddy couldn't get...

[Warham]

Originally posted by Phil theStalker
Rikk, I say, "bring it on" to them, too They coined the phrase. I like to use it, too.:D

I can and I can't believe some guy in this thread said I "hate America" and implying that people like you "hate" America, too.

Kerry isn't for pulling U.S. bases out of the Middle East either. No matter who wins there will be fighting in the streets.. of Badhdad? Of New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit "burn baby burn," Chicago, Atlanta, Miami, well, you get the idea, sadly.

It's coming no matter which "skull & bonesmen" get in the White House this fall. The war for the fall of America is underway by the one world government and they don't like losing.

But they're going to lose.



P

I come here to read this shit. If it's going to happen no matter who wins, then what the fuck do you care?

Why are you in here spouting off your liberal nonsense?

Oh, right, I'm on ignore.

[John Ashcroft]

You're damn right Warham. What fucking nonsense out of the lot of 'em. Rikk's apparently in ignore mode. As soon as someone shoots a hole in his misconceptions, he moves on like it never occurred. I know it's typical behavior of liberals, but I still point it out when I can.

[Rikk]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
You're damn right Warham. What fucking nonsense out of the lot of 'em. Rikk's apparently in ignore mode. As soon as someone shoots a hole in his misconceptions, he moves on like it never occurred. I know it's typical behavior of liberals, but I still point it out when I can.

LOL! I responded to your rant...I think it's hilarious that your defense of the government's behavior is that America is not a democracy. What the hell kind of defense is that? That doesn't make any actions that weren't justified suddenly be excusable.

I point out facts. You whine and group any complainers in as "liberals", which is something I've never called myself anyway. It's hilarious...the only thing you keep spouting in this forum, Ashcroft (the only forum you ever seem to be in, considering this is a David Lee Roth forum), is that there is something wrong with questioning your government or questioning a war is insulting the soldiers. No. To question a war is to make sure it's in the best interests of the world, the country invading and the soldiers who are doing the actual dirty work. If someone questions a war (e.g. Vietnam) and we discover there was no real reason for it to happen, then the soldiers are the ones that are vindicated (although if the questioning happens posthumously, then what are you going to say to dead soldiers?). Obviously you don't understand what democracy is. And your only defense to that is that America isn't a democracy.

Well, I'd love to see your pal George Bush declare in a speech tomorrow that America is not a democracy...I think it would pretty much sink any chance he has left of winning. And there would be a giant uproar. Declaring that it's okay because we are not living in a democracy is a pretty sad argument, and it doesn't make you look good.

Democracy, anyway, is an idealogical notion...it's not a reality because you always need government. But America prides itself on being hte land of the free...and freedom includes questioning your government. If you can't do that, then you might as well live in a dictatorship. And what I also find amusing is your giant use of the word (or accusation) "liberal"...or how about "left"? Well, funny enough...do you know that the traditional definition of a leftist person is someone that actually thinks government should have a greater role in our lives? A true right-winger thinks government power should be diminished. So next time you accuse someone of being a "leftist" or "liberal" because they demand that we should question the government, I think you should realize the contradiction. Freedom of speech and democracy (yeah yeah, America isn't a democracy...whatever) are about looking at issues and deciding what's best for the country...not taking sides and making enemies.

Have a nice day.

[MAX]

This is exactly why I stay out of this discussion. My late Grandmother told me at a very early age to never argue either politics or religion. This is exactly why I do not.


Anyway, sorry Rikk cos I HAVE to represent and you are one of my very best and most dear friends around but.....


"W" in 2004!!!!!

[Big Train]

Keeyth,

Help me with a connection your making. How does the CIA drug trade (alleged) boost the US economy? You would think they wouldn't be filing 10-40's on that sort of thing, it's more of a cash and carry business.

Where does that money go and how does it keep our economy from collapsing?

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Warham
I come here to read this shit. If it's going to happen no matter who wins, then what the fuck do you care?

Why are you in here spouting off your liberal nonsense?

Oh, right, I'm on ignore.

I care about surviving. That's what I care about. And I want to be able to save as many of my family as I can save. Straight up, dude.


PRIVATE MESSAGE:

Warham: Phil I'm sorry for saying you should "shut up." It was rude of me. You raise a lot of interesting questions.

Phil theStalker: Oh Warham, you're t2oo kind


Okay Warham, I took you off ignore, because you're a thinker. There is hope for you. I can take disagreement, idiocy, porn, profanity, perversion, but I dislike rudeness. Rudeness is a waste of time.

And time is something we all don't have a lot of right now.


You take care

Phil

[lms2]

Why is it so hard for you to understand that both sides are wrong. Just like with the VH saga. Okay. I side with Roth cause this is his site...but my honest opinion is that if the sisters and Mikey were such total fuck ups, Dave could never have made them what they were in the first place.

Kudo's to our noble military for defending this Country. Shame on this country for not being more deserving of the lives lost for it.

It's not Bush's war and he is not wrong for fighting it.

Kerry will never be the reason it ends.

As for the United States being a super power. Our days are numbered. Every great nation since the beginning of time has been beaten by a weaker, less deserving nation, that wanted it just a little bit more and were willing to fight just a little bit harder, and a little bit smarter because they had something they believed in. Most importantly, every great nation that has fallen before us has beaten themselves.

The walls crumble from within. Don't think they don't. That is the biggest mistake you can make. And that we are making. A country divided cannot stand. Though Phil is a little doomsday for me. He is more right than any of us want to admit. So joke about nuking the stupid bastards, but nuclear war is no laughing matter-and it does not take a whole country to fire off a missle. The UN does not have to approve it. It just takes one sick paranoid freak. And there happens to be alot of those in office, everywhere in the world.

To fight or not to fight is not the question, the question is, just exactly what are we fighting for?

[Rikk]

Originally posted by MAX
This is exactly why I stay out of this discussion. My late Grandmother told me at a very early age to never argue either politics or religion. This is exactly why I do not.


Anyway, sorry Rikk cos I HAVE to represent and you are one of my very best and most dear friends around but.....


"W" in 2004!!!!!

FUCK YOU MAN!!!!!!!!! FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

It's all good. You know, I have no problem with people that have a different opinion from mine. I don't understand it, but that's the point...people don't always agree. Ashcroft I'm not too fond of because he can really only go on about "liberals" and accuse people of hating America (plus be pretty insulting) without actually offering many points. And he'll think he won if you don't respond to him directly. But this is a FORUM...my responses are directed to everybody. If you want personal conversation, Ashcroft, try a PM. That means private message.

Anyway, you're right MAX...I actually regret getting involved in these conversations, because I'm really here to talk David Lee Roth and Van Halen. But I sometimes read something and feel I have to respond. And then tensions rise, etc.

Oh, I almost forgot, Kerry in 2004!!!

[lms2]

Rikk. Just go with it. Thats what keeps us coming back again and again. That anger. That need to respond. People who feel differently than you are what make life worth living. If you cannot objectively question your values, and come out believing stronger than you did before. You have nothing worth valuing.

My problem is no matter which side you are on, I will argue with you, and if/when I finally convince you I am right, I switch sides. At least you know what you believe in.

F*ck Bush and Kerry, Vote ROTH.