No options left for Van Halen

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  • Terry
    DIAMOND STATUS
    • Jan 2004
    • 12222

    No options left for Van Halen

    This group has no directions left that will be able to rouse enthusiasm in a substantial number of people.

    Outside of Eddie grunts and Waboritas, whose numbers are thinning as the years march on according to the underattended nature of the 2004 shows, nothing EVH and Co can do from this point forward is gonna a wrothwhile undertaking. Guess the same case could be made for Dave's career at this point, but fuck it, I'm partial.

    Is getting a fourth singer really an option at this point? I'm sure there would be plenty of underemployed frontman of yesteryear who might sound great on paper and even more unknowns looking to make a name for themselves who'd take a shot at it. Am sure the Van Halens would be willing to try. Wouldn't be anything other than an uphill battle that they'd be fated to lose in the end anyway (Just ask Gary Cherone. Unlike Hagar, he's not delusional about how his time with the band ULTIMATELY turned out).

    More of the same with Hagar at the helm? Christ, after the initial laughter and disbelief of the Feb 2004 announcement Van Hagar MACH 2 was then subjected to media indifference, low concert turnout and three new Van Hagar songs tacked onto a greatest hits compilation that generated nowhere near the visibility and excitement of the same undertaking in 1996 with Roth that differed only in the amount of songs they did (2 in 1996 vs 3 in 2004), the amount of effort put into promoting them (1 non-performing appearance at an awards show in 1996 vs several months of touring in 2004) and the amount of media attention given to it (fall of 1996 was saturated with coverage, most of it in the form of EVH and AVH interviews going negative on Roth vs 2004 with only a few of the usual suspects GUITAR WORLD etc chiming in and passing, obligatory mentions in other outlets). Bottom line: few give a shit about Van Hagar reunited, and VAN HAGAR MACH 2 if it continues would fit the same mold as VAN HAGAR MACH 1: all the curiousity and success would be heaviest at the beginning, and taper off as time went on. Probably much more quickly this time around. There would be no ten-year period of slow but steady downward trajectory a la 1986-1996/1985-1995/1985-1996. Van Hagar is dying fast the second time around.

    Getting Dave back for a third attempt at a reunion? Best shot at that was 1996. Eddie and Alex didn't so much blow that opportunity as they just plain didn't want to do it from the get-go. All they wanted were two new Roth tracks to push the sales (try to think what Best Of Vol 1 would have sold if MWM and CGTSNM weren't on them). The controversy, though unwanted, was deemed spinnable. However, they didn't take into account that it wasn't 1985 all over again: Roth wanted to be there this time. When Roth bailed in 1985, many were willing to give Van Hagar a shot. Wasn't like the band had chucked Dave in order to get Sam in there, although the way Ed's musical tastes were 'developing' at that point helped Roth find his way to the door a little quicker. In 1996, the band had a choice, and they made it: they chose Gary Cherone over Roth. 2000? Proof that they were no longer able to get together and even write or record. Plus, is a reunited classic VH now even able to stand up to their own legacy, or rise to meet the standards of the classic fans? Eddie's just gone, dude. Best we could hope for is a by-the-numbers tour of oldies. Not the way I'd want to see the band undertake a last hurrah. Best just to leave it alone.


    The band name Van Halen should just be left to rock history now. In an age of diminished expectations, some this year have said that the mere fact that Ed didn't fall over onstage and only made several glaring mistakes in a given show is proof that the band are back and better than ever. Alex seems as delusional as ever regarding Van Halen's relevance today. About the only relevance Van Halen has now is to illustrate what a great band Van Halen WAS more than twenty years ago, and just how far they've fallen in the years since.

    The name Van Halen needs to be retired now. They shouldn't feel compelled any longer to travel down the same road as KISS, The Rolling Stones, the Eagles, The Who, etc., towards a future where changing lineups, slavish overemphasis on older material and an inability to recognize a spent creativity all add up to a pile of misplaced nostalgia, half-assed in its execution. Van Halen joined that pantheon of greats to a certain extent by initailly not being afraid to break with form and going about it on their own terms. Would be the closest thing to a positive ending at this point for VH to end it in a manner that would again differ from many of those greats, and stop now instead of plodding along for the sake of a few more dollars.

    Still believe Ed has plenty left in him to say with his guitar, but the Van Halen format is just a spent force. Maybe unfettered by formula of a traditional rock band lineup (i.e. a permanent lead vocalist/frontman) EVH can find a new showcase for his undeniable instrumental talent and if not escape his legacy at least find a way to co-exist with the past that won't by default invite comparisons with it. Fairly or not, continuing on the route Van Halen is going regardless of Roth's participation will only provide a contrast between the present and the past, and the Van Halen of today will always come up short. The band is just trying to remake the wheel now in terms of its own myth. A fruitless excercise that's not really helping Ed develop, regardless of how many incredible demo tapes he claims to have in the can (does that matter if we don't get to hear them?).

    To make a long story short (too late), apologies for the length of this post, but then again I'm not known for my economy with words here.

    Peace.
    Scramby eggs and bacon.
  • BITEYOASS
    ROTH ARMY ELITE
    • Jan 2004
    • 6530

    #2
    Being low profile during this whole reunion didn't help either. Because half of the sheep didn't hear about it, thank god! :D

    Comment

    • Bill Lumbergh
      ROCKSTAR

      • Mar 2004
      • 5472

      #3
      If the sisters and Jabba attempt to tour again, the numbers will make this tour look like a rousing success. NOBODY wanted this tour except hardcore Ed fans.......and even they will be reluctant to shell out 85 bucks the next time around(with his dimished playing, and the underwhelming Van Hagar tunes.).

      Comment

      • Va Beach VH Fan
        ROTH ARMY FOUNDER
        • Dec 2003
        • 17913

        #4
        Great post as usual Terry...

        The comparison to KISS is an interesting one...

        However, I will say this, KISS did it right, at least the first time around...

        Even considering the huge egos of Paul and Gene, they recognized that they had to give what the fans wanted, which was the original lineup, back in makeup, in '96....

        The result ?? A soldout tour of stadiums and multi-date arenas....

        Now what happened after that, with different people in Ace and Peter's makeup, is a different story, but that '96/97 tour hit the nail right on the head....

        Can/could VH duplicate that ?? If this was '96 or even 2000, I'd say absolutely, but after witnessing this "we'll never do a nostalgia tour even though that's what we're doing now" tour, they've missed their shot....
        Eat Us And Smile - The Originals

        "I have a very belligerent enthusiasm or an enthusiastic belligerence. I’m an intellectual slut." - David Lee Roth

        "We are part of the, not just the culture, but the geography. Van Halen music goes along with like fries with the burger." - David Lee Roth

        Comment

        • Carmine
          ROTH ARMY SUPREME
          • Apr 2004
          • 7693

          #5
          the title of this thread is "no options left for Van Halen"

          well there is...1 option...get Dave back for one more album and tour. Anybody that says that cant happen or shouldn't for whatever reason is only fooling themselves. Every person who hits a Roth or VH board will be front row center and they know it! Even the sheep................of course they will, Its F"n VAN HALEN!

          Comment

          • secrets
            Foot Soldier
            • Apr 2004
            • 587

            #6
            It's a no win situation for Van Hagar mach 2. Even if they have the nerve to find another vocalist I can't see any major label willing to invest in them. With Hagar on vocals they might get a deal but it will be musically redundant and will not be a great profit maker.

            Dave would like to reform with Van Halen, for a number of reasons.
            The question is will the Van Halens finally give the guy a break. I doubt it personally.

            It looks as though they have well and truly fucked up the legacy of Van Halen.

            Another Van Hagar album will finish off the band for good.
            Achtung Baby I say, I say...

            Comment

            • lms2

              #7
              I am so undecided on this issue of whether or not a "real reunion" is the way to go or not. Of course it is the BEST option for all four-but since all four don't give a crap, why should I. After reading most of the reviews, I am almost ready to say Dave should stick with his current band and put out a new album. That would tell me that Dave is ready to move on and has no desire for a reunion, and that would definitely be a deciding factor for me.

              Comment

              • diamondsgirl
                ROTH ARMY SUPREME
                • Apr 2004
                • 7563

                #8
                Van Halen needs to go away and stay there.

                Thanks to this last fiasco (BOBW and tour with the Hag) the Van Halen name, as a band, has become a joke. They are fresh out of options. Time to close shop.

                If Ed were to sober up, I am sure there is more out there for him musically. But, I don't see it happening as a band.
                Last edited by diamondsgirl; 11-12-2004, 05:36 PM.
                “Why do people say "grow some balls"? Balls are weak and sensitive. If you wanna be tough, grow a vagina. Those things can take a pounding” ― Betty White

                Comment

                • Snow Ho
                  Head Fluffer
                  • Apr 2004
                  • 203

                  #9
                  good riddance van hagar. dave looks real good in the new pictures. he doesn't need them. serves them right for downplaying his contributions.

                  Comment

                  • thepunisher
                    Roadie
                    • Jun 2004
                    • 147

                    #10
                    I'd like to see Dave do an album, tour.
                    I could also envision if any kind of a reunion could take place is if they happened to work together on some special project. Say CVH unplugged, with just Ed and Dave. The other parts are replaceable.
                    Or maybe a benefit album or something. I don't know. But this is just plain sad what Ed and Alex have done to themselves and the legacy. I wish someone broke into 5150 and stole all the Dave '96 and '00 material and released it. Not to mention the tons of archive CVH videos of live stuff.
                    Oh well.
                    <img src="http://www.nrgservices.com/EBAY/roth.jpg">

                    Comment

                    • Terry
                      DIAMOND STATUS
                      • Jan 2004
                      • 12222

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
                      Great post as usual Terry...

                      The comparison to KISS is an interesting one...

                      However, I will say this, KISS did it right, at least the first time around...

                      Even considering the huge egos of Paul and Gene, they recognized that they had to give what the fans wanted, which was the original lineup, back in makeup, in '96....

                      The result ?? A soldout tour of stadiums and multi-date arenas....

                      Now what happened after that, with different people in Ace and Peter's makeup, is a different story, but that '96/97 tour hit the nail right on the head....

                      Can/could VH duplicate that ?? If this was '96 or even 2000, I'd say absolutely, but after witnessing this "we'll never do a nostalgia tour even though that's what we're doing now" tour, they've missed their shot....
                      KISS totally got it right the first time around in 1996, agreed. Seemed as if even Gene at the time displayed some humility when he said all things paled next to the original KISS lineup. Being relegated to doing KISS conventions because they couldn't get any promoters to book another makeupless, non-original KISS tour after the ALIVE 3/Revenge tour flopped, fun as the conventions may have been for them, had to be a wakeup call.

                      KISS got the original lineup together, temporarily put the egos aside, rehearsed properly, pulled out all the stops and gave longtime KISS fans what they wanted. A rousing success. Didn't even really matter that Psycho Circus sucked. Then Gene and Paul's egos and greed got reinflated, and out came the old stories of Ace and Peter being difficult to deal with (how dare they ask for a renegotiated percentage of the profits 3 years into the first Farewell Tour of 1996-2001 that would give them a more equated split) alongside updated charges of drug and alcohol abuse. Gene and Paul owned the trademarks to the makeup, so out go Ace and Peter and in come the imposters.

                      Could Van Halen have done something along those lines in 1996, in terms of putting the egos and greed aside, holding the power struggles in check and focusing on the music and the fans? Well, no, they weren't able to in the end, but it was within the realm of the possible.

                      Van Halen are damaged goods now. In terms of all the bullshit that has transpired since 1985 having an impact on how stellar the music pre-1985 was, thankfully it won't. But what's gone down since 1996............well, Ed and Al have run the band (and in the case of Ed, himself) into the ground.

                      Can totally understand having the belief that Roth returning would equate greatness for VH again. But inbetween the Idea and the Reality lay the shadows, and the shadows are where we find the Van Halen of today receeding into.

                      Time to pack it in. It's no fun watching this car crash anymore. It's not really anything anymore. Van Halen is guilty of making people indifferent now. Just a meek way to end things the way they're going.
                      Scramby eggs and bacon.

                      Comment

                      • Halen High
                        Commando
                        • Jul 2004
                        • 1231

                        #12
                        The brothers have already blown it. Even if they do a CVH reunion in 2005 or 2006, the brand name has taken a hell of a beating over the last few years. 1996 was THE time to do it, and then they had another undeserved opportunity in 2000.

                        And a CVH reunion is definately not a good idea unless Eddie can get his head together, and Alex can get over his childish bitterness.

                        Comment

                        • janarak
                          Roadie
                          • Aug 2004
                          • 131

                          #13
                          Great call Terry,
                          It sometimes feels like believing in Santa Clause you want to believe but you know in your heart of hearts that DLR and the VH girls are not going to do it.They have had their chance ,they and I mean Alex here are not going to work with Dave.
                          I await some no hoper to be the singer of VH 4.
                          Why share the stage with some one who could be creative when you can have a Gary Whats his face.
                          Dave should play to his strenghts and just be Dave,more solo stuff and a new album of DLR material.
                          Every post I have read over the last couple of weeks have felt like someone is destroying the VH legacy I hope they tour no more!!

                          Comment

                          • glensfallspaul
                            Roadie
                            • Oct 2004
                            • 102

                            #14
                            "KISS got the original lineup together, temporarily put the egos aside, rehearsed properly, pulled out all the stops and gave longtime KISS fans what they wanted. A rousing success. Didn't even really matter that Psycho Circus sucked. "

                            According to Peter, the only track that the four original members actually played together on was Ace's "Into the Void." Gene later said "Tommy Thayer was all over that record," mimicking Ace's style (Thayer later publicly took Ace's place on the Alive IV: Kiss Symphony concert/cd/dvd and on the last two tours). They tried to make a KISS reunion album succeeed without the full input of all four original members -- then lied about it to sell the record (and subsequent tour).

                            Forunately, at least the two 1996 VH reunion tracks from BOV1 are memorable -- although there was a powerplay there, too (as DLR describes so well in the "Reunion Blues" chapter in CFTH).

                            Comment

                            • BlimpyCHIMP™
                              Banned
                              • May 2004
                              • 637

                              #15
                              DAVE IS STILL RECOOPING FROM WHACKING HISSELF IN THAT FAT FUCKING HEAD OF HIS WITH THEM SWORDS N'SHITT

                              DAVE FUCKED UP
                              BIG EFFING DEAL, DUDE

                              DLR WILL FRONT THIS MOFO VH BAND OF SISSIES INTO THE WAR MACHINE IT ONCE WAS YOU WATCH AND WHEN IT HAPPENS YOU CAN DING YOURSELF IN THE HEAD WITH MY MEATSWORD CUZ bc!! TOADJA® SO

                              BEAST,
                              BC!!

                              Comment

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