is there a god

[jharp84]

All I can say is no matter what faith, hope, religion, belief, morals, ...
I still Feel One common point here! EVERYBODY WANTS SOME!

[ace diamond]

Originally posted by FORD
And I suppose you think Anton LaVey held the keys to all real truth?

nope.
truth is a very relative term.
and btw ford,
"THINK WHAT YOU THINK,NOT WHAT I THINK-I CAN THINK FOR MYSELF"
a saying i came up with 25 years ago.

[ace diamond]

Originally posted by Little Texan
Exactly! Humans create religion as an attempt to explain the unexplainable, and make themselves feel better about what will happen when they die. It's easier to just say that there is an invisible, imaginary man up in the sky somewhere that created everything and is manning the controls than it is to actually try to come up with an actual explanation for where we and everything else came from and why we're here. It's also more comforting for people to feel that there is a possibility that they will actually go on to an afterlife after they die than to just end up in the cold, hard ground as worm food.

I was brought up in a Christian household, and was forced to go to church as a kid against my will, being told the 'ol "as long as you're living under my roof, you're going to church" bit, which I resent, even to this day. I'm a firm believer that everyone is free to make their own choices in life, and are free to live life however they choose to live it, such as being free from the bonds of organised religion and church. I haven't set foot inside a church for Sunday services in over 12 years, and I haven't missed it one bit to be honest with you. I told my mom last week, who is about as devout a Christian as there ever was, that I don't go to church because I don't want to go, I don't like church, and I never have, and I didn't appreciate being forced to go when I was a kid. You can probably guess how that went over! Then she asked me if I believed in god, in which I gave her my opinion on the subject, and that one really didn't go over well. She was so upset by what I said that she was crying her eyes out when I left, and the night ended with me getting the door shut in my face! I felt really awful about upsetting her like that, and apologized for it, but I don't, and won't apologize for stating my viewpoint and opinion on religious matters. My mom is one of these Christians that is such a crazed believer that she has a closed mind to all differing viewpoints to her own, she won't even listen to the possibility that there isn't a god. I'm not really passionate about the topic either way, and I really don't give a shit about it. I've just done a lot of thinking on the subject over the years and come to the conclusion that Christianity is a fraud, the bible is full of shit, and going to church on Sunday is a monumental waste of time. I have no problem with Christian folks and people that believe in god, and I think alot of them are really nice people...they are free to believe however they wish, no matter how wrong they may be, to each their own. The problem I have is when someone starts trying to shove the shit down my throat and try to make me believe, and try to make me become a Christian, and try to make me go to church. No one is going to make me do ANYTHING I don't want to do...that's just the way I am. They can try all they want, but they'll just be wasting their time. I have much better things to do on Sunday than to waste my time at the sheep pen, er, I mean church, and sing a bunch of stupid hymns and sit through a long, boring church service listening to some blowhard preacher talk about a bunch of bullshit in an old fictional book, you know, better stuff to do like watching a good football game on tv, or doing something outdoors like going hunting, or getting something done that I haven't been able to do during the week, in other words, WHATEVER I DAMN PLEASE! Sorry for the long, rambling, rant of a post, but another of my 2 cents.

you make me proud. i am with you 100%.could not have put it more eloquently if i tried.

[ace diamond]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
There are of course a huge amount of lovely great people we all love who are Christians.

The thing that I was alluding to earlier in this thread and similar to your story with your mum and I've had with my folks is that churchgoing seems to be habitual more than anything else. Put the 'life the universe and everything' thing in a little box and forget about it otherwise it's too troubling.

I wasn't from a particularly religious family by US standards, I had to go to sunday school/church until I was old enough to say no, my Dad didn't go my mum did go most weeks.

It was never really on my radar at all for about 15 years but as I got older over the last few years I went back and had a really good look at it with an initially open mind resulting in a lot of threads and posts here.

The thing that I'm struck by most is that there are all these millions of people that never take a step back and look at it.

Christianity is the bible. There isn't really anything else.

You have a book which is 'the word of god' or whatever and people go to church and passages are read from it and the preacher guy does a talk where he talks about some issue and then tries to tie it into stuff written in this book and people sing some songs based on selected bits of the book. Then you have bible study groups through the week where people read in more detail about stuff in this book.

People do this for for an hour or 2 or more per week depending on their dedication for year after year. Someone like your mum or mine may now have spent as a minimum 2 hours X 50 Weeks X 50 years or 3000 hours doing this and at no point thought 'Where the fuck did this book come from? Who wrote it? When was it written? Who chose what was in the book? What proof is there of the stuff in this book? Does it tie up with the extensive historical documents the Romans have left us? Why doesn't it fit with our scientific knowledge?'

And so on.

I had a 10 minute chat with my mum similar to the one you describe and to be honest I think I really shook her faith a lot. It was odd because I felt bad about it afterwards for some reason. I think it was because it was like kicking a crutch away from her. It was a pointless crutch in a way but who wants to kick a crutch away from your mum?

I blame the church leaders. I think they go off to learn to be ministers or priests and are taught implicitly or subconsciously never ever to raise any of that shit because it brings the whole house of cards down.

Cheers!

sesh, i went through the whole thing of being forced to go too.except i was in a group home, and they made me go for 3 fucking years.didn't matter that i had a jewish dad and an apache mom. didn't matter that i was jewish.didn't matter that i did not want to go.i was forced by a state run instituion to attend this crap for 3 years.it was world war 3.
see my choices were simple-go to church or go to jail for being A.W.O.L.

this is back in 88,89,90,and early 91. from the time i was 11 until i was 13 almost 14.

after a while i got so sick of this shit,i no longer gave a fuck. on my 12th b-day, i told them to baptize me. the damn tank was empty so they had me come back during the korean service to do it so the could fill the tank up.

we when the time came, i walked into that church and strolled right down the center aisle naked as the day i was born,walked right up to the podium,told the whole church what i had been forced to endure, cussed god and jesus and all christians out real fucking good.....and shout into the microphone-FUCK GOD, FUCK JESUS,FUCK RELIGION,AND MOST OF ALL,FUCK ALL YOU WORTHLESS MOTHERFUCKERS!!!
HAIL SATAN!!!!!

needless to say,they group home had to find another church to go to,and i spent the rest of my sundays in juvenile detention watching the games on tv(baseball,football,basketball,hockey) and watching movies with the gaurds. even the correctional ooficers thought it was really fucked up and wrong what i was being put through.

more reasons for me to hate christians.

my mother is now devoutly catholic. she full well knows where i stand on the subject, and knows full well why.
we have an agreement to just avoid the subject altogether. my father does not bring it up with me either.

my mother's mother onvce swore i was possessed by a horde of demons about 23 or 24 years ago. she beat the everloving shit out of me.....this was her version of an exorcism.
it did not work.

all this added to the other "good christians" who robbed my home and tried to have me killed back in december 1998.

and poeple wonder why i fucking hate church,religion,the bible,and the mindless sheep followers that buy into that crap.

news flash people,there is no god,no devil. religion is a lie.
you want salvation,you gotta save yourself.

there is no spirit in the sky.

like i said earlier, it's all done with smoke and mirrors.
it's the worst piece of theatre i have ever endured.
there's no business like show business.
churches are a business.they put on a theatre show.
when you go,you are theatre patrons.
when you put money in the donation baskets, you are supporting this charade. that is what keeps thew show going.
churches should not be tax exempt.
they should have to pay their share too.

[ace diamond]

i forgot to mention i tore a few pages out of the each of the gospels with the red letters where jesus supposedly said stuff,wiped my ass with it, because i had just taken a huge dump and stunk up the bathroom while i was getting undressed,threw it on the floor,pissed on it.

later that day i took every bible the group home had forced on me,grabbed a big metal trash can, places these bibles in it,along with every other bible anyone else had left laying around,drenched them in lighter fluid, lit a piece of news paper with a book of matches i had stolen from the church,threw the matches and news paper in the can.
BURN,BITCH BURN!!!!
i burned those bibles until there was nothing left of them.
i got in deep shit for this,but i did not give a fuck.
it was worth it to me.
after all the torture i have been through in my life at the hands of christians, i would just love to eliminate religion from the face of the earth.

[Nitro Express]

If you can kill off everyone who dissagrees with you and intimidate the sheep who are left into following you; then, you have become GOD.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by ace diamond
i forgot to mention i tore a few pages out of the each of the gospels with the red letters where jesus supposedly said stuff,wiped my ass with it, because i had just taken a huge dump and stunk up the bathroom while i was getting undressed,threw it on the floor,pissed on it.

later that day i took every bible the group home had forced on me,grabbed a big metal trash can, places these bibles in it,along with every other bible anyone else had left laying around,drenched them in lighter fluid, lit a piece of news paper with a book of matches i had stolen from the church,threw the matches and news paper in the can.
BURN,BITCH BURN!!!!
i burned those bibles until there was nothing left of them.
i got in deep shit for this,but i did not give a fuck.
it was worth it to me.
after all the torture i have been through in my life at the hands of christians, i would just love to eliminate religion from the face of the earth.

Stop sitting on the fence in this thread...

I guess we'll put you down as a 'maybe'?

[Nitro Express]

To eliminate religion from the face of the earth means killing off all the people of the earth because people are who invents these religions.

The problem is you would have nobody to fuck. Nobody to make the electricity or provide fuel for you home or car. Nobody to grow the food and bring it to you.

It would be a more miserable existance than having all the religions around. Hey, I don't think too highly of the Catholic Church or it's history but I had a good Catholic as a fucking partner. I just loved her pussy too much so I sold out and kept my oppinion on her faith to myself.

[Nitro Express]

She went to mass and I tapped her ass.

[franksters]

I sincerely believe that if there wouldn't be ANY religion, we would be Barbarian, and the strongest would have the upper hand.

I also believe in GOD, like I tell to anyone who ask, I was raised a Catholic, But I let no one interfere between me and GOD, we have a direct link!!

I feel sad for people who don't believe in nothing at all, I think it must be hard, (like giving yourself misery) and in general, as an observation over the years, they also seem to be more self centered, or they are not affected by what happens to anyone else...pittyless...

of course this last statement sound harsh but I think it has a little truth in it.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by vanzilla
Why did this get bumped?

Yeah, and where the hell are you Vanzilla?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Little Texan
I'm leaning towards no.

No one has ever seen, nor heard this god speak (no matter how many christian nutjobs have claimed that he's spoken to them). There is no physical nor visual evidence of his existence.

The bible is supposedly the divine, infallable word of god, yet the bible is saturated with contradictions, inaccuracies, and complete falsehoods. If it is truly god's word, then why so many errors?

The part that always gets me is this god supposedly is full of love for his creations, yet throughout the bible there are instances where god has killed scores of people because he is angry with them. He also created a place to send his "beloved" creations to to torment them for all eternity if they don't live according to his rules. Yep, sounds like genuine, true love to me.

I'm sorry, but I'm the kind of person that has to have proof that something exists before I'll believe in it. If someone tells you that a flying pink elephant exists because an old ancient book says so, yet it has never been seen and there is no physical evidence of one ever existing, are you going to believe in flying pink elephants?

No one can prove the existence of a god. You can say that stuff didn't just happen by accident and we had to be created by something, but you can't prove that this particular god in the bible is responsible for making it all happen.

Furthermore, how many religions and gods have there been throughout the history of mankind that have come and gone and have since been proven false? Zeus, anyone? The ancient Greeks had a strong belief in their gods, too, much as christians do today in Jesus and god, but did that make their deities any more real? Why, then, are we to believe that the god in the bible is any more real than all the previous deities throughout time?

Also, logic states that in order for god to even exist, that something had to have created god...he didn't happen just by accident. Where did this god come from? The whole chicken and egg thing...

Just my two pennies...

Interesting, good points. But the Bible proves nothing one way or another, since it was written by men with a political agenda.

If they were supposedly "channelling" God, then they fucked up royally...

I'm not saying I'm a believer or no, just that a flawed document claimed by men as "the word of God" is neither proof nor disproof of its existence...

And anyone that takes the bible as the literal word of God is completely self-retarded...

[ace diamond]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Stop sitting on the fence in this thread...

I guess we'll put you down as a 'maybe'?

[ace diamond]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Stop sitting on the fence in this thread...

I guess we'll put you down as a 'maybe'?

wiseass.......i've not set foot in a fucking church or a fucking synogogue or any other religious gathering place ever since.

i'd rather have bamboo splinter shoved under my finger nails while enduring chinese water torture while being streched out on the rack.

[ace diamond]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
To eliminate religion from the face of the earth means killing off all the people of the earth because people are who invents these religions.

The problem is you would have nobody to fuck. Nobody to make the electricity or provide fuel for you home or car. Nobody to grow the food and bring it to you.

It would be a more miserable existance than having all the religions around. Hey, I don't think too highly of the Catholic Church or it's history but I had a good Catholic as a fucking partner. I just loved her pussy too much so I sold out and kept my oppinion on her faith to myself.

i would survive just fine.